Polish Exile helmet Eagles

[Olinoah71]

Guys, please have a look at these pictures and tell me what you think.
My grandfather was with the 5th Kresowa Polish Division at Monte Cassino, and I am trying to put together as much as I can from this division and era. However I am not so sure about this helmet for several reasons.
1. No inscription visible on helmet itself.
2. Date indicator on a black , not brown, insert Vero 1941
3. Front Eagle rather well formed and somewhat similar to some false stencilled examples
4. Side painting rather large and bright for a battle worn example.
5. Chinstrap design

Apparantly it was stored in a military warehouse for "over thirty years", hence the good state. The seller has another helmet in equal quality except with another division painting on the side.
Perhaps props from a film, or am I just really lucky to be able to buy this?

[A.J. Zawadzki]

Hello and welcome to the forum,

This is the second round on ebay for these two.

No problem at all with the liner, chin strap, or shell as production stamps are sometimes weakly impressed and easily obscured by the paint, especially when textured. But the all-important painted insignia is another matter. I have heard that some soldiers applied unit markings to their helmets in the immediate post war years prior to disbandment of the 2nd Corps, but have yet to see a known genuine example or even a period photo.

In this case it appears that the artist made the mistake of picking a bizarre disproportioned rendition of the 5KDP bison shield off the internet as his model, rather than using the real thing. Whoops!

Genuine 5KDP insignia:









A mess:









I should also add that genuine surviving period marked Polish MK.II’s are really quite rare. So the seller further bungled this up by listing two at the same time. That alone should be a huge red flag.

Regards,
Tony

[Olinoah71]

Thank you kindly for your reply.
So in your opinion all the separate parts of the helmet - chinstrap fittings and texture of the strap itself, the liner with the 1941 date, the colour and texture of the inner material, and the shell itself are consistent with being an MKII of the period ? So the problem, in your opinion, is the quality of the bison drawing, or in the case of the other helmet being sold, the size and quality of the Carpathian emblem?

Of course it may seem that I really want this helmet to be my holy grail, though if I consider all the apparent "ageing" effects that are around the helmet and on the painted parts, it seems that the designer went to an awful lot of trouble to make this a Polish fake MKII....why? Would they gain so much more money for making a genuine MKII helmet to be Polish?

I have looked long and hard at the eagle and do not see that the proportions are equal and symmetric, the bison drawing is clearly a mess, as you say. The ageing effects are also similar to those on the eagle.....does that mean that it was painted long ago, or that the "artist" knows how to fake the ageing process?
So 1) are these helmets truly, and in all their combined parts, from the exact war period that Polish went to battle and 2) someone has deliberately made them appear to be Polish?
Thanks again for the reply.

[A.J. Zawadzki]

Hello again, and you’re most welcome.

I’m afraid you’re asking questions that have already been answered. Correct, it is a genuine wartime Mk.II, with genuine components. They are common and readily available.

The problem with both helmets is that in my opinion the Polish insignia was added recently and falsely aged. The 3DSK helmet has a better looking paint job with the insignia, but that doesn’t escape all the warning signs mentioned in my prior post.

. . . it seems that the designer went to an awful lot of trouble to make this a Polish fake MKII....why? Would they gain so much more money for making a genuine MKII helmet to be Polish? . . .

Why? $$$. There is a big and growing market for Polish militaria. And most collectors desire an iconic Polish marked MK.II adorning their headwear shelf. This draws the counterfeiters.

Consider these two now on ebay. They were initially listed for over $1000 each. A nice payday for say four of five hours work. Fortunately no one took the bait.

As mentioned previously, genuine surviving period marked Polish Mk.II’s are rare and very sought after. The problem is that 1 in 100 is genuine, and they are easily faked. It is one of the riskier areas of the hobby, and not for the novice. This should be quite apparent when reading over this thread. It contains a lot of knowledge and I’d strongly recommend you study up on the topic as best as possible before shelling out hard earned cash.

Cheers,
Tony

[ze-pole]

Hello,
Here is my last "baby".
This a mk2 helmet, found in 1996 near Yvetot, North of Normandy, buy a friend. I was waiting for it during all these years...
The proof that to collect, we need to be patient...
Of course, it is enough damaged, it was like that in 1996. The eagle is about 25-30% only, but it is good.



It was a long time I didn't get an item.
ZP

[sgtbarnes44]

Hi,

what are your opinion on that one ?
Using a loop, I can tell the polish eagle has been painted thru a stencil with a sponge or a rag, not with a brush.
If the history i got with it is true, it is a bring back souvenir of a french soldier that took part in the italian campaign...











Regards

JC

[Esco]

Regarding that weird 5KDP bison shield found on previous MkII. I came across some interesting 5KDP patch some time ago. Check this out:



"A rare Second World War M.M. group of seven awarded to Corporal L. Majewski, 5th Kresowa Division Field Artillery, who was decorated for his gallantry at Monte Cassino in May 1944 and afterwards in the mobile operations along the Adriatic

Leon Majewski was born at Szwarcenowo, Krotoszyny, Lubawa in April 1907 and was called up from the Polish Army Reserve in August 1939. Drafted to 29 Field Artillery Regiment, he served in the campaign in Poland in the following month, when he was taken P.O.W. by the Soviet Red Army. Following the Polish-Soviet agreement of 30 July 1941, he was released and rejoined the Polish Army as a member of the 5th Wilenski Field Artillery Regiment, 5th Kresowa Infantry Division, which joined the British 8th Army in October 1942. He subsequently served in the Middle East 1942-44 and in Italy 1944-46 and, as cited above, was awarded the M.M. for his courage at Monte Cassino and in later operations. Finally discharged in the U.K. in May 1947, he was embarked at Glasgow for Gdansk, Poland in the following month. "

[A.J. Zawadzki]

Both 5KDP's are bad fakes. Likely added to the group to try to spice things up, but in reality throwing the whole lot into doubt. I suspect the same with the printed shoulder title. These are more closely associated with the 1st Corps, and not typically found on genuine period 2nd Corps uniforms.

Regards,
Tony

[Esco]

Guys, how about this little fellow? Do you think it's real thing?

[CASSONI]

In my continuing effort to keep this thread alive: Here's a helmet from my collection with an unusual set-up. This M26 Adrian helmet has a khaki triangle, outlined in white, with a white eagle in the center. Around the base of the helmet there is also a blue band (sort of a horizon-bleu color). The helmet appears to have been painted khaki, but then the triangle was apparently masked off and the green painted over it. You can tell this was the process because the khaki color shows through in other places where the green paint has worn away.

I have never seen anything similar to this triangle pattern, except for some French Adrians that had different color triangles painted on the front. Our esteemed moderator was kind enough to track down a photo of an M26 Adrian from the Macjek Museum that has a similar triangle, but with a Polish Air Force eagle in the center.

Still, I have been able to come up with no definitive information on the khaki triangle / white eagle / blue band combination. Any information or comments that any members could provide would be most appreciated.


Addendum: Forgot to note that one French collector has previously suggested to me that the helmet in question may have been for a guard or sentry at an air base.

Hi could that French Collector shed any light on a Adrian that i came across recently i think it may be from the Italian Campaign Monte Cassino as the badge looks like the symbol for the British 1st Infantry Division