P51-D Mustang

[Scout]

Where is the P-61 located?

Which Black Widow do you refer to?!

There are four P-61 night fighters in existence, worldwide.
Three are on static display and sadly incapable of flight.
The fourth 'Black Widow' is the subject of an epic
recovery and restoration project conceived and
led by Eugene "Pappy" Strine, co-founder of
the Mid-Atlantic Air Museum.

The US Airforce Museum has one on display. As I mentioned above the chinese have one in Bejing.

Here is a great link for the P61. Amongst other things you can see some interesting pics of a recovery effort of a P61 in New Guinea. The aircraft will (hopefully) fly again as the only Black Widow capable of that.

MAAM's P-61 Recovery and Restoration Project - The Widow's Web

US Airforce Museum P61

US Air Force Museum - WWII - Northrop P-61 Black Widow Night Fighter

[ssg keay]

Ha, now that the Black Widow is in the race, I can throw in some other twin engine beauties
The de Havilland Mosquito Fighter
The Messerschmitt Me410
The Heinkel He219 Uhu
and my all time fav, the Bristol Beaufighter

By the way, what about the Yak 3 or 7?

I also have to admit, the Fw190 D9 is one sexy plane , but when it comes to British Fighters (yes the Spit is gorgeous) my fav is the Hawker Tempest, especially the Mk II Version.

[Scout]

Ha, now that the Black Widow is in the race, I can throw in some other twin engine beauties
The de Havilland Mosquito Fighter
The Messerschmitt Me410
The Heinkel He219 Uhu
and my all time fav, the Bristol Beaufighter

By the way, what about the Yak 3 or 7?

I also have to admit, the Fw190 D9 is one sexy plane , but when it comes to British Fighters (yes the Spit is gorgeous) my fav is the Hawker Tempest, especially the Mk II Version.

I must say, that I have always liked the Tempest.

No question about the Mosquito and the Beaufighter - both smashing designs.

As a dane, I especially like the Mosquite because Mosquitoes made a low level (very very low level) attack on Gestapo headquartes in Denmak during the occupation.

Here a period blurb about the attack. It is rather biased as such things tend to be. Entertaining description about the low level attack none the less (tailwheels touching rooftops, bombs from other Mosquitos flying past the planes of other pilots etc)

"NEWS RELEASE - Report on The Attack on The Gestapo Headquarters, Aarhus, Denmark
SURPRISE ATTACK BY 24 MOSQUITOS : NONE LOST

The Gestapo Headquarters in Denmark, housed in two buildings in Aarhus University in Jutland were wiped out in a spectacular low level raid by 24 RAF Mosquitos, whose pilots picked out their targets which were hemmed in by a large number of buildings, including two hospitals. So close to their objectives did the machines fly that one machine left a tailwheel on the roof, and another buckled the engine nacelle, while the pilot of the third saw a bomb from a Mosquito in front of him strike the side of the building, come out through the roof and pass over his own plane before it went down again. The raid, which was described by pilot navigators in London yesterday, ranks for precision and daring with the attack last February on Amiens prison to release French patriots and the occasion on April 4th when the Central Population Registry at the Hague with lists of Dutchmen marked down for deportation to Germany was blown to pieces. It was planned down to the last detail. An accurate model of the target and the numerous adjoining buildings being prepared to help the briefing of the crews who were told of their task under a curtain of secrecy. The pinpointing of the target was vital, for the hospitals were less than one hundred yards away and must not be hit. The fuzing of the bombs for the attack which took place on Tuesday afternoon, was so arranged that each of the four groups of six aircraft could drop their load without the risk of being blown up by bombs of their own section and yet leave as little time as possible between group attacks.
Valuable Documents

The attack was decided upon because of the recent tightening by the Gestapo of its grip on Denmark, following a rising wave of resistance and sabotage throughout the country. Thousands of documents and dossiers of Danish patriots were kept in the Gestapo Headquarters, documents which were invaluable to the Nazis in persecuting their victims. British, New Zealand, Australian and Canadian crews took part in the spectacular exploit, and fighter cover was provided by a Polish squadron of Mustangs. The formation, which operated in four sections of six each, and in addition one Mosquito of the RAF film unit, carried out the task to the second without a hitch. The whole attack was over in ten minutes, all the machines returned safely. Two of the pilots whose names for security reasons must be kept secret, described incidents of the raid. One, who led a formation, when asked the ages of his navigator and himself, smiling replied, "Well, I heard someone asking after the attack was over, 'where is the old man', which I rather resented", he is only 35 and his navigator 25.
"Light Very Bad"

The first formation was over the target a few minutes before noon, said another pilot. There was low cloud and light very bad. In fact, it was getting so dark that lights were in the rooms of the University when we approached the target. Some of our fellows could see people dashing across the rooms, apparently rushing for shelter. The leading navigator said that everything went according to plan, the weather was pretty dirty just before we reached the target, but it cleared to give us a good run up, he added. I could see the bombs of the first section go squarely into the middle of the left-hand building. The pilot of a Mosquito, whose task it was to take photographs said, "I made three runs across the target, the bombing was very accurate". "I did not see any bombs outside the target area, although there appeared to be some damage to neighbouring buildings, probably owing to blast or flying debris. The attack had all the appearance of a surprise assault, for it was not until it was nearly over that the enemy woke up and then the last section had to make their run up in the face of fairly intense flak". Another pilot said "We could see lots of people giving the 'V' sign and waving, one man who was ploughing in a field on the way to the target, came to attention and saluted as we passed. Some of the Mosquitos were less than ten feet above the buildings and I saw a man duck as the bombs from the Mosquitos ahead of me passed over his head on their way into the building". A pilot going into the attack at low level saw "someone squirting at him with a machine gun through the windows of one of the building". He resolved to squirt back so went down still lower and as a result left his tailwheel behind him on the roof.
Bouncing Bomb
The other incident was the freak behaviour of a bomb. This 500-pounder was dropped by one machine and the pilot following in the next plane saw it strike the side of the building, turn upward as it entered, emerge through the roof and pass over his plane before it went down again.
Hospital Avoided
The avoidance of the hospital at Aarhus was the big problem. The squadron leader said the hospital was not hit. "We were restricted to one line of attack and one angle, and this line was not entirely suitable because it took us over their flak area. Photographs show that both buildings we were after were demolished. When we left, fire was raging in the shell of the building. Altogether we dropped 24,000lbs of bombs". "



Unfortunately the above could ofcourse not mention the fact that the chrash of a Mosquito in the raid caused terrible havoc on the city below. Other pilots saw the burning inferne of the plane and mistook it for a marker and bombed the location. It turned out to be a school. Read below. The description is from the auction of a D.F.C. from one of the pilots



Wing Commander P.A. Kleboe, R.A.F.V.R., No. 21 Squadron, late No. 109 Squadron, who was killed on the Copenhagen Gestapo H.Q. Raid Seven: Distinguished Flying Cross, George VI, rev. dated 1943, Air Force Cross, George VI, rev. dated 1942, 1939-45 Star, Air Crew Europe Star, with France/Germany clasp, Defence and War Medals (these unnamed as issued), Air Efficiency Award, George VI (Sqn. Ldr.) (7) the first two and last stamped R for replacement, the Stars late issues, about extremely fine [D.S.O.]: London Gazette: 16 January, 1945; A. Wg. Cdr., 109 Sqn. ''This officer continues to display the highest standard of skill and gallantry. He has completed a very large number of sorties, many of them against well-defended targets important to the enemy's war effort. In October, 1944, Wing Commander Kleboe took part in an attack on Essen. At the commencement of the bombing run heavy and concentrated anti-aircraft fire was encountered. The aircraft was hit. A large piece of shrapnel smashed through the pilot's windscreen. Wing Commmander Kleboe sustained numerous small cuts about the face. This, together with the violent inrush of wind through the broken windscreen, temporarily blinded him. Control was lost. Wing Commander Kleboe quickly levelled out however and, although in great pain, went on to execute a steady and successful bombing run. He afterwards flew the aircraft safely back to this country. He set a fine example of tenacity and devotion to duty.'' D.F.C.: London Gazette: 10 September, 1943 (General Citation); A. Sq. Ldr., 109 Sqn. The following was taken from an official source: ''Since the 1st January 1943, Squadron Leader Kleboe has made 37 operational flights using ARI.5513, 27 of which have been as a marker, most of them against targets in the Ruhr. During these flights he has on a number of occasions led the attack. Throughout his operations, his flying and initiative has been of the very highest order and the example of conscientiousness and accuracy he has set has always been an inspiration to his flight.'' A.F.C.: London Gazette: 11 June, 1942 (General Citation); Flying Officer, No. 1501 B.A.T. Flight. The following was taken from an official source: ''This officer has performed most conscientious work as a member of this flight. During the past 6 months he has flown more than 400 hours much of which has been undertaken during unfavourable weather conditions. Flying Officer Kleboe has given confidence in this important form of training to a large number of senior officers who have been his pupils.'' Wing Commander Peter Andrew Kleboe, [D.S.O.], D.F.C., A.F.C., was born at Leatherhead, Surrey, on 26 June 1916, and from the mid-Thirties until the outbreak of war was employed as a flying instructor with the British Air Transport company at Redhill. In July 1937 he joined the R.A.F.V.R. and was awarded his 'Wings' as a Sergeant Pilot in February 1939. Called to full time service eight months later, he attended instructors' courses at the Central Flying School before being commissioned Pilot Officer in October 1940. Having gained the A.F.C. in June 1942, he was promoted Squadron Leader in January 1943 and served with 109 Squadron, the original Oboe equipped Mosquito squadron of the Pathfinder Force. In September of the same year he received the D.F.C.. In October 1944 at the start of an attack on Essen he was wounded in the face when fragments from a flak burst perforated his aircraft in several places and smashed a hole in his windscreen. Temporarily blinded and in considerable pain, he lost control of his Mosquito but managed with difficulty to level out and ultimately deliver a successful attack. Advanced to Wing Commander in June 1944 and awarded the D.S.O. in January 1945, he was next appointed in March 1945 to the command of 21 Squadron at 140 Wing's forward base at Rosieres-en-Santerre, France, following the losses of Wing Commander 'Daddy' Dale on 6 February and his successor Wing Commander V.R. Oates on 12 March. A year earlier 21 Squadron had participated in Group Captain 'Pick' Pickard's epic low-level precision strike against Amiens Prison, by which large numbers of condemned French Resistance workers had been set at liberty, and in October 1944 it had also taken part in the celebrated daylight demolition of the Gestapo's Jutland headquarters at Aarhus. Several weeks before Kleboe assumed command of the squadron, selected crews had been summoned from their Thorney Island base to Fersfield, Suffolk, for a secret briefing on what was to be another of 2 Group's spectacular pinpoint raids. The target this time was the Gestapo's Copenhagen H.Q., the Shell House, wherein a vast archive of soon-to-be-acted-on information giving ruinous details of the 20000-strong Danish Resistance Movement had been formulated by the usual evil means. The Aarhus Raid caused the Copenhagen Gestapo to take preventative measures against a similar attack. Firstly, and with typical German thoroughness, they camouflaged the Shell House with green and brown paint without realising that this in the midst of a city made it the more obvious as their H.Q.. Secondly, the local Gestapo supremo, Dr Karl Hoffman, let it be known that the attic accomodation had been converted into cells in which were placed important Resistance prisoners - a move swiftly negated by the prisoners themselves who through friends still at liberty informed London that 'We would rather be killed by R.A.F. bombs than a German firing squad.' The attack was planned for 30 January, but bad weather precluded low flying over the target area that day, and following further postponements for the same reason on the 31st and 1 February, the A.O.C. 2 Group, A.V.M. Basil Embry, announced that he was not prepared to keep valuable Mosquitoes hanging around any longer when there was important work to be done from Rosieres-en-Santerre. On 15 March, a day or two before Kleboe joined 21, the Danish Resistance, having heard that General Pancke was about to carry out mass arrests that would lead to the total collapse of the underground, sent a further dire message to London: 'Military leaders arrested and plans in German hands. Situation never before so desperate. Remaining leaders known by Hun. We are regrouping but need help. Bombing of S.D. Copenhagen will give us breathing space. If any importance is attached at all to Danish resistance you must help us irrespective of cost. We will never forget R.A.F.' The complex operation, known as Carthage and which had consumed many hours of meticulous planning, was accordingly revived, and on or about 18 March sixteen crews from 21, 464 and 487 Squadrons, including Kleboe and his navigator Flying Officer R.J.W. Hall, R.C.A.F., were recalled from France. A final detailed briefing was held at Fersfield on the afternoon of the 20th, with the proceedings being opened by 140 Wing's commanding officer, the low-level specialist Group Captain Bob 'Pinpoint' Bateson, who with his navigator Squadron Leader 'Daisy' Sismore, D.S.O., D.F.C., would lead the attack. Amongst the assembled personnel sat the irrepressible Embry who, with his navigator, Flight Lieutenant Peter Clapham, made up the full complement of eighteen attacking crews. An escort of twenty-eight long range Mustang fighters would be provided by 64 and 126 Squadrons, and two further Mossies were detailed to film the attack. (The latter's work together with the plaster cast model of the target as scrutinized by Kleboe and the rest are in the Imperial War Museum.) The entire force took-off on the 700 mile round trip at 8.40 next morning in order that the attack might be delivered at the height of the Gestapo activity. Skimming the icy North Sea at fifty feet, the low-level approach completely foxed the German radar installations and thus provided for the maximum element of surprise. As they sped over the Danish countryside Kleboe, in the first wave and leading two 21 Squadron Mosquitoes, occupied the number four position in which he was to bomb behind Bateson, Embry and Squadron Leader Carlisle. 'We had now worked up to maximum cruising speed', Embry recalled, 'and were flying just above the ground in perfect formation, preparing for our final run up to the target. At times we had to pull up to avoid high-tension cables, trees and other obstructions, but our mean height was below tree-top level.' Finally the fields gave way to the suburbs of the Danish capital and the Shell House came rushing into view. Bateson's bombs hurtled between the first and second floors of the Nazi-occupied building, to be rapidly followed by Embry's and Carlisle's. Kleboe and Hall, meantime, dropped to deck level to begin their bomb run but as they roared on to the target the tail of their aircraft clipped a 130 foot lighting pylon, causing the Mosquito to smash into nearby garages and its bombs to fall in Sonder Boulevard. Peter Kleboe and Reginald Hall perished instantly. Squadron Leader A.C. Henderson flying immediately behind took immediate evasive action but still managed to register strikes on the west wing of the Shell House. Flight Lieutenant 'Mac' Hetherington, the last pilot in the first wave, bombed at roof height to avoid flak now coming from the cruiser Nurnberg moored in the harbour. The second wave of six aircraft from 464 Squadron arrived to find a pall of dense smoke covering the Frederiksberg district. Two Mosquitoes made secondary circuits in order to firmly identify the target - one bombing successfully and the other returning home without attacking. But at leat two of this wave mistook the fire from by Kleboe's crash for that expected at the target and bombed Frederiksberg, as did at least four of the third wave led by Wing Commander Denton of 487 Squadron. As a result of this terrible mistake eighty-six children and seventeen staff of the Catholic Jeanne D'Arc School were killed together with other members of the civilian population. A few months later, at the end of the war, Embry and a group of his officers made a special journey to Copenhagen to visit the injured children in hospital and to meet some of the thirty or so Danes who had managed to escape from the Shell House, which together with its infamous archive had been successfully destroyed, and in which some 100 Gestapo and Danish collaborators were thought to have died. Embry and his party were deeply touched by the 'lack of bitterness and the understanding and sympathy' with which they were received by the Danes. Though Kleboe was only briefly with his last command, his death in action 'on one of the most heroic, successful and tragic low level bombing raids of the entire war', was deeply felt, as Flight Lieutenant J.L. 'Les' Bulmer, a 21 Squadron veteran of seventy-five ops, was later to confirm: 'It was with sadness that I heard of Peter Kleboe's death three days later. I'd only known him for a few days but I liked him and reckoned he would be good for the squadron. With three C.O.'s lost in just over six weeks, 21 Squadron was going through a bad patch. But such is war.' Reference sources: The Reich Intruders, Dramatic R.A.F. Medium Bomber Raids over Europe in World War 2, Martin W Bowman, 1997; Mosquito, C Martin Sharp & Michael J.F. Bowyer, 1997.

[Alan M]

Ha, now that the Black Widow is in the race, I can throw in some other twin engine beauties
The de Havilland Mosquito Fighter
The Messerschmitt Me410
The Heinkel He219 Uhu
and my all time fav, the Bristol Beaufighter

By the way, what about the Yak 3 or 7?

I also have to admit, the Fw190 D9 is one sexy plane , but when it comes to British Fighters (yes the Spit is gorgeous) my fav is the Hawker Tempest, especially the Mk II Version.

I saw one of the only air worthy beaufighters flying at Duxford a few years ago , apparantly a very quirky plane to fly ! It had crashed on landing at Denham airfield after it had been extensively renovated back in the 70/80`s . Then after another 10 /11 years of restoration it was again made airworthy and flew again late 90`s . A couple of flights later it was again pranged on landing !!!!! a shame!!!

[DonB]

I must admit the Spit has a certain appeal to it, it`s a long lean killing machine, anyone (besides Ade the expert ) care to guess which mark of Spit this is?

At a guess, Mk.19 or Mk.22/24?

[zwerge]

Hi Don, it`s a MKXVIe ( Mark 16e ) model with clipped wings, the picture was taken in Hamilton,Ontario,Canada about 6 years ago.

[JIMSJEEP]

I agree the P51 Cadillac of the sky! With its range, speed, endurance,
firepower. It could fly from its bases in Britain to Berlin and back. One of of the most aesthetically pleasing fighter designs of the Second World War.

[zwerge]

I agree the P51 Cadillac of the sky! With its range, speed, endurance,
firepower. It could fly from its bases in Britain to Berlin and back. One of of the most aesthetically pleasing fighter designs of the Second World War.

Well the mustang was the better long range fighter but the spitfire sure was classy looking.

[chilsam]

Thanx for reply I didnt notice that you stated location,THANX for the other links I really enjoyed them!

[chilsam]

I know it didnt see service & I dont have a picture but I think the Republic XP-72 should be brought to lite "Kinda of a cross between P-47 & p-51" sleek & fast 480 mph in testing. Jet power killed it though.