2 SS Visor Caps - Your Opinions Please

**Michael Ryan** · 03-29-2015, 02:54 PM

Hi, Many years ago I aquired the first cap as a copy and without insignia. It is very well made but has had the lining torn out. The band is roting and the padding above the visor has been removed. The visor shows a lot of wear both under the chin strap, on the underside of the visor and on the inside. The chinstrap itself has metal tubing under the sliders. Any markings that may have been present have gone with the liner. There is no evidence of foam under the remaining linner parts. The badges are probably repro???

Your thoughts and opinions regarding this cap would be appreciated

Cheers Michael R

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 03-29-2015 02:54 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**ErWeSa** · 03-29-2015, 07:41 PM

Hi Michael,

repro cap IMHO, original caps had cheesecloth between the lining and the fabric of the top layer (see thread "Cap making" and Helen's thread about fabrics) - I don't know what this is but it seems to be modern fused interlining ("Vliesline"). The remaining lining does not look too good either, neither does the fabric of the cap - this is not Trikot.

I am not an expert for insignia, but this skull looks like one the cast repros - much too flat, are the prongs visible in the inside of the cap? What color/shape/material are they? How does the skull feel? "Soft"? This would be typical for a cast one. Let's wait for the experts for a valid opinion.

**Michael Ryan** · 03-30-2015, 10:23 AM

Hi Erwesa, Thank you for your message and for voicing your opinions on this cap. Further, like averyone else on this Forum, your opinion is valid and, to me perfectly legitimate. The badges came out of my junk box, so I would have been very surprised and pleased had they proved to be original. As said in my original post, I aquired it as a repro and it lives in my cap collection as such. However, the general construction and quality seem consistent with a cap of the period, The wear and tear on both sides of the visor, the chinstrap and the sweat band are, from my experience of well worn visors, consistent with age and use. The cap even has a real feel about it?? If you are correct and the cap is a banger, someone has done an excellent job of aging it not to mention building it?? Peronnaly, I accept that on balance it may not conform to the norms but I like it, be it original or a banger.

Thank you once again for your response and opinions. They are very valid to me!!

Regards Michael R

**Wagriff** · 03-30-2015, 10:29 AM

The material and construction style looks very disturbingly like that of an aged Latvian fake...If so, they are, indeed, getting much better...

**Michael Ryan** · 03-30-2015, 11:01 AM

Hi Wagrif, Do you have any idea when these Latvian fakes started to surface? I purchased this cap from a guy in Plymouth in 1986 but I know nothig of its previous history. He had a small collection of German bits including a Gold NSDAP Long Service Cross. Every thing I purchased from him was original but I took the cap on the understanding, at least to me, that it was a banger,

As a matter of interest, last year I went through a similar "is it/isn't it real" with a Jap sword initially Identified as a Chinese copy which later turned out to be a quite rare none Japanese manufactured period item.

Thank you for your opinion and comments. As always, they are valued.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 03-30-2015, 01:57 PM

Grey SS caps have been faked for decades. Your enclosure is one of these many fakes.
Mr. Mint has a huge pile of such fakes, as well as examples of real ones.
Here are some real ones, and I think you will quickly see that your example poorly corresponds to the real item.
finally, caps with Waffenfarbe are especially rare, but triply faked and more so.

v Lukacs has an authentic grey field cap for cavalry for sale, which Mr. Mint has included in his real pile.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 03-30-2015, 01:58 PM

Sieder in Vienna made also this kind of cap you enclose in the 1970s.

The Latvian caps emerged in the wake of the collapse of the USSR in 1989-1991.

My friend in Salzburg noticed the interior textile immediately, given his eagle eye.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 03-30-2015, 02:03 PM

The caps that Mr. ErWeSa makes are a 1000% better than all these old fakes.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 03-30-2015, 02:05 PM

Here is Mr. Mint's pile of real caps with Waffenfarbe. The two I owned, I did sell. One of which is now the property of Paul Sack, who is much smarter than I am, by far.

SS COLOR-Piped Visors

**ErWeSa** · 03-30-2015, 04:37 PM

Dear F.-B., thank you for the compliments, if only they were true.

For Michael: I enclose the photos of a fake I bought at Fetzenmarkt in Graz in 1987, offered honestly as a fake. Compare the fabrics. Word was then, that a Viennese maker was producing these copies of TR caps. I always assumed it was Slama. Interesting that F.-B. mentions Sieder which I only knew as Posamentierer like Maurer (see here: M. MAURER - Unsere Produkte - Uniformeffekten) from which I once bought some Austrian Uniformeffekten.

F.-B.: Thank you also for the sample-photos, I'll get to work these days.