M43/Bergmütze with central seam?

[FtrPlt]

Posting this for a fellow collector. The central seam is on the exterior wool only and not on the lining. I've never seen one of these before. Rbn on the lining. Working on getting some better photos>

[jws54]

at a glance,...I say "yuck",...it looks poorly made on the buttonholes and the underside of the brim stitching is done poorly and the center seam is for why ? as the time for piecing together caps was not yet at hand. The wool looks too thick at the flap folds as it bends over and is not creased enough to have been worn consistant with the wear on the interior which also looks contrived. Usually a hat is worn and when the flaps come down past the "sweatband area" these will become grimy as well. For the attempt at making it look old,..all I see is a cap that is trying to be something it is not.

There, I have put in my 2 cents and will stand by my words. I am no expert and you may correct me for my pronouncements.

[peiper1944]

Howdy this was posted for me by a fellow collector, in answering Mr jws54's comments i will do my best, this cap had been in mine and my Father's collection since 1984 (nearly 30 yrs) before any repro caps were about, well they were about but not like they are made today.

It was purchased from a dealer name "Peiter Kaufmann" from Germany, not sure if he is still around but the other items we purchased from him were 100% original, the cap apparantly is not grimy enough according to Mr JWS54, well the reason for this it had been cleaned and also laid flat in a box for the last 20 yrs hence no creases and dirt, the one stain which still remains in the linning was not "contrived" at all and reject the accusation that iam trying to put something across which is not so, the stain remains basically because it wouldn't wash out where as the rest of the cap linning looks generally clean because it has been cleaned lol thats why, as for the stain i couldn't say ,maybe hair oil, blood who knows ? but it remained stubborn and is still on the cap, as for the brim looking too thick all i can say is maybe the cardboard stiffner inside the material has become out of shape through washing, i do know this dealer Kaufmann travelled to Russia on a number of occasions and brought stuff back, the cap was filthy when purchased so needed cleaning, we did at the same time buy a tunic which was genuine and also hadn't been touched, there was still a 1942 cinema ticket in the pocket crumpled up along with tobacco flakes lol, anyway hope this explains the caps appearance.

Regards Peiper

[youthcollector1]

Although I wasn't around, I'm sure there were repro "hats" prior to 1984 sir.

[wizardman]

Really need better pictures for any real evaluation..i have a Clemens Wagner one in mint condition,ill post some pics tomorrow for comparison...just on some points, Repros have been around for a lot longer than 1984 and some really early stuff isnt bad looking either..i can fully understand jws54s point,although i wouldnt say anything either way till we get better pics

[peiper1944]

What other pics can i put up, ive pictured it from every angle, i understand of course there have been repros around a long time BUT not to this standard imho and especially not 30 odd years ago thats what iam saying.

Take a look at the insignia and how it has been sewn on for one thing, the buttons, metal badge etc, all are genuine, bear in mind this was completely filthy when we first recieved it so the linning is clean in some parts also as mentioned the stubborn stainning won't come out, also the peak has become mishappen through washing also age has taken its toll tbf.

It has some unusual features for a Bergmutze that i grant you but in my opinion it is 100% genuine, you cannot get a repro ANYWHERE as good as this, even the lining is authentic herringbone faux silk type which was used during that period, my opinion is that it has either been specially made or is a "pressed into service" type cap from a foreign supplier of some kind, it is just TOO well made for a repro tbh, i have never seen anywhere during my 30 odd years of collecting any repro that comes up to this standard.

Also why would a repro company make a hat with unusual features such as a central seam for one thing it doesn't make sense, surely they would make one with the usual standard features. !!

[youthcollector1]

Some well-made reproduction, such as ss visors, were produced in the 50's-60's I believe. I think one was even posted here recently. I'll look for the link if another member doesn't post it.
So you know, I am in no way saying your example is fake, but just saying there were a few good reproduction produced prior to ca. 1980's.

[Mark K]

Sorry at this point I am not convinced much better images are required in better focus I have seen overseas caps converted to feldmutzes key photography points should be the insignia and sewing,the buttons,the inside of the liner in full, the grommets in side and out,button hole stitching,the fold down ear flaps with special attention given to the sewing on the reverse of the flaps are the flaps reinforced ,do they have pull down tabs sewn in to them there are many unanswered questions here the devil will be in the details and with proper photography all will be revealed

Regards Mark K

[wizardman]

"Also why would a repro company make a hat with unusual features such as a central seam for one thing it doesn't make sense" money?..if you check this forum my second post on here was a faked SS M43 that was a very unusual type that there was only a handfull of photos available...the very knowledgeable gentlemen on here saved me a few thousand dollars..if you dont feel you need or want to put up CLEAR photos dont..but in the same token i wouldnt buy something someone wouldnt take five minutes to satisfy my curiosity in an "UNUSUAL" cap..i also noticed this hat has been discussed elsewhere in June by your good self wwii axis reenactment forum • View topic - Hybrid-Bergmutze ?

[Adrian Stevenson]

Sorry it is a fake.

The insignia is easy to pick up upon. Just look at the swastika arms and how they are disjointed. An old US made fake which I have described on the forum many times....

Cheers, Ade.