Need opinions on Luftwaffe Herman Goring Division Visor Cap...

[dzyner]

Hi all,

I have an opportunity to purchase this cap from an estate, but would like some opinions on it before I pull the trigger. I own a few Luftwaffe caps and nothing throws a red flag except the lack of a diamond insert attached to the interior liner. Then again I suppose this may have been a custom tailored cap? At first the sweat band seemed a little cheap, but upon checking against others I own I found it looks just like the one in my signals visor cap.

What do you guys think?









Thanks!
Dzyner

I collect WW2 German Luftwaffe Visor Caps.

[stonemint]

I would pass. These hats came in 2 versions--the contract issue caps, and private-purchase. Private purchase would normally have better materials than this one. THis one has an odd lining, and with the incorrect chinstrap (not even close to being Luftwaffe) appears to be a put-together piece of some sort.

I would stick with the contract examples if you really want one--they are commonly available.

[BenVK]

Unbelievable, I've searching for an authentic "ersatz" paper sweatband in good condition for a restoration for almost a year and now one turns up attached to a repro cap!

[dzyner]

Hi guys. I went ahead and bought the cap. I negotiated a price I couldn't pass up (based on the assumption it is a repro) and figured I'd take the gamble. Now that I have it in hand, I'm not so sure this isn't the real deal (minus the strap, which is definitely a replacement)! Yes the liner is not standard, but I own quite a few Luftwaffe tunics and this very same material (exact color, weave, etc) lines the interior of a couple NCO Flight tunics I own. Perhaps this example had it's liner replaced due to damage, or maybe the soldier simply preferred to match his cap liner to his tunic liner? Who knows!

I took several more detailed photos with a good camera and am posting them for more opinions. I popped the band up so you can see the blousing and stitching of the liner to the cap, which all appears correct to me. The stitching of the band to the cap also looks correct.

Thoughts??

[BOB COLEMAN]

I would not have this cap in my collection. Every issue cap I have ever handled was unit marked on the backside of the sweatband. The visor color is off and like Stonemint mentioned, the cap material and lining are off. I agree with Stoney that this cap lack the quality one would find in a private purchase piece-especially for an elite unit.

[dzyner]

Thanks for your feedback Bob.

I'll first state that I'm only interested in a healthy debate about this cap, not an argument. I want to be sure my words come across as intended; in a positive way, not negative Sometimes words can be misunderstood.

I just realized I missed noting in my previous comment that this cap passed the black light test. I do understand the black light test is not a 100% true tell of an authentic versus repro cap, but should give credibility to the cap being from the period at very least, especially since the piping is white.

There are only a couple of comments to this post, which surprises me, but I'm really curious to hear more thoughts regarding what this cap "could" be, if not an HG cap. The coloring in my photos may be a little blue, but the cloth color is consistent with examples I've noted on dealer sites (a blue-gray tone). I own about 12 visor caps, including 3 Luftwaffe caps, and when comparing the thread weave of the exterior cloth, how the liner is bloused and stitching to the cap, the material and manufacture of the visor bill, and even the ersatz sweatband, to several of the others in my collection it is a 100% match. For the record, here are a few of the other caps I own so you can see I'm comparing to genuine period caps... German Caps & Visors.


As collectors of cloth, we've all come across repaired pieces; some done in the field in haste, while others repaired much more professionally and hardly noticeable. Either way, there is no standard for repairs that I have seen so it is certainly possible that the liner be replaced on a visor cap using "liner" material (in this case the very same material used to line Luftwaffe tunics). I can provide close-up shots of the cap liner material and the liner material of one of my Luftwaffe tunics if anyone would like to compare for themselves.

Bob, regarding the unit markings on the underside of the bands, I will agree that having the mark would make this one (or any visor) more credible. However, in my experience not all bands are marked on the underside. In fact I know of at least one in my collection (Luftwaffe Signals NCO Visor Cap) that has the same sweatband as this one (the "ersatz" pressed paper band) with no markings on the underside.

I'd like to hear from Stonemint again (and other cap collectors) now that I have the cap in-hand and have posted more photos. I can take more photos as well (obviously) so please feel free to request specific shots.

[BOB COLEMAN]

To clarify my previous comment, I was only referring to HG caps having the unit marking.

[BenVK]

Well, I don't think it's a repro. Reminds me very much of a lot of other caps made late on during the war, eReLs, Pekueros etc. Some like and collect them but not me personally. I just dislike the extremely cheap manufacturing.

[dzyner]

Thanks for clarifying Bob. I did assume you were referring to all visors, my bad.

BenVK, I agree it's certainly not the most elegant example, by for me I'm not real picky. I generally tend to like most any cap that isn't falling apart

Here's a nice article on late-war caps (including the use of the pressed paper bands). In the article are also some great photos showing correct blousing and stitching of the liner... Late War Production: A Good Excuse for Bad Hats? - Paul Sack

[S.Vestae]

No