Opinions needed on Luftwaffe EM/NCO, Division Hermann Göring Schirmmütze

**KSH** · 07-05-2011, 08:30 PM

I want to thank everyone who gave their opinion, be it for the cap or against the cap! What stonemint and Ben is saying is very sound advice indeed. However, I am a collector who collect only for my own enjoyment (like Tom said above) and I have to this date not sold anything of my collection and have never contemplated it either. The truth is, I find this cap rather too intriguing to let it go. I got a good deal on it and as of now I have landed on keeping it despite its apparent "shortcomings".

I still have another week to think about it before the deadline of getting a full refund runs out.

- Kenneth

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 07-05-2011 08:30 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**KSH** · 11-16-2011, 01:33 PM

Update:

I just now remembered this old thread here! I did end up keeping this cap (as my avatar probably betrays

) as I just couldn't let it go - it really "speaks" to me

The price was not bad either. The condition is as evident from the photos, excellent and it must look almost as it did when the original owner picked it up at the hat shop in WW2. It must also have been stored properly during all these years.

I have never gone over an item from my collection more thoroughly (as regarding authenticity) than this cap here (because of the amazingly good condition) - and the cap passes all trials and comparisons possible - I have even burn-tested a loose thread from the cap just to confirm 100% that it is period - and of course it was

Today I am just very glad I decided to keep this original, high quality Luftwaffe HG EM/NCO visor cap. It is today one of my most appreciated items.

- Kenneth

**talltom** · 11-16-2011, 02:09 PM

it really is an amazing cap its a beut
thanks for sharing

**davies435** · 11-16-2011, 02:31 PM

Kenneth, It doesn't matter if it came with a 101% provenance to be genuine.............some people will NEVER accept something in such good condition could possibly be genuine (I know from experience on this point). I myself have caps and helmets where the condition is outstanding, but once one say's "ooooh..fake".........it's often all that's needed for people out of their depth to jump on the wagon. Nice cap....I'd be happy with that!

Mike

**KSH** · 11-16-2011, 02:51 PM

by davies435

Kenneth, It doesn't matter if it came with a 101% provenance to be genuine.............some people will NEVER accept something in such good condition could possibly be genuine (I know from experience on this point). I myself have caps and helmets where the condition is outstanding, but once one say's "ooooh..fake".........it's often all that's needed for people out of their depth to jump on the wagon. Nice cap....I'd be happy with that!

Mike

Indeed, condition alone can never be allowed to decide whether an item is original or not. Some WWII items look like crap today because of age and wear (+ bad storage etc) and some items look like they almost could have been made yesterday. I don't blame anyone for being skeptical regarding a cap in such pristine condition as the cap in question (because more often than not - such caps are reproductions), but there is a difference between healthy skepticism and dogmatic fanaticism.

Speaking of this particular thread, I should have waited for the cap to arrive before posting - because the dealer photos make the cap look almost without any age to it and do not represent the cap well. No wonder those photos made people skeptical - they would have made me very skeptical also!

- Kenneth

**KSH** · 11-16-2011, 02:52 PM

by talltom

it really is an amazing cap its a beut
thanks for sharing

Thank you, Tom!

- Kenneth

**KSH** · 05-11-2012, 02:03 PM

A better presentation (with better photos) that comes closer to giving this amazing cap justice can be seen here: https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/cloth...ustice-177989/

Regards,

Kenneth S-H.

**goodbuys** · 05-11-2012, 02:58 PM

Not about to add more then whats been posted.Main problem and one thats on some members minds is no "H.G.,Hermann Goring Regt,etc. are marked inside and thats a point made about it.That said you like it you keep it, but the more you defend it the more posts will come your way!!IMO.

**goodbuys** · 05-11-2012, 03:06 PM

Please go to "MILITARYCOLLECTIBLESINC.COM click under hats Luftwaffe.Item #ha00713 and check this marked hat.I have not dealt with this dealer and only used him as an example so i dont wish to get into a contraversy about this seller!!

**KSH** · 05-11-2012, 03:28 PM

by goodbuys

Not about to add more then whats been posted.Main problem and one thats on some members minds is no "H.G.,Hermann Goring Regt,etc. are marked inside and thats a point made about it.That said you like it you keep it, but the more you defend it the more posts will come your way!!IMO.

I welcome all posts that could come my way in this case. For a collector to want a HG-unit stamp to be present in a cap is perfectly legit - it's the same with orders and decorations too - many people are very particular about their awards and badges being marked, and some collectors don't really care that much whether a marking is present or not. And this cap needs no effort from me to defend itself, it defends itself perfectly. I really loathe the phrase "textbook", but ALL aspects of this cap from the materials used to the construction is 100% consistent with other period originals. Not only that, this cap is very, very well made in fact.

To purport for instance that an Iron Cross must have a marking to be legit, would be entirely anachronistic and incorrect. Likewise to say that a cap from a certain division or unit must have a "Geprüft-stamp" is anachronistic and incorrect. The point with this kind of unit stamp is to state that the cap has been found to be according to the regulations. Privates and NCO's technically had to get their private purchase caps approved by officers of the unit. This regulation was however often flaunted regularly even in pre-war caps. When the war started, this practice of marking privately purchased caps with a "Geprüft-stamp" became less and less adhered to. I probably don't have to mention all the other regulations that were often flaunted in the armed forces of the Wehrmacht. I have seen literally hundreds of different Wehrmacht EM/NCO caps without a unit approvement stamp in them - it is actually rather common. The funny thing about HG-caps is that collectors seem to have made different rules for caps from one single unit (the HG division) which is ridiculous and again, anachronistic. The men of the HG-unit were just soldiers in a Luftwaffe unit just like everybody else, and acquired their uniforms and caps just like everybody else. Which means that to suggest that all caps made for the HG-unit must have unit stamps is again, ridiculous - because of the fact that these are NO DIFFERENT than the other Luftwaffe caps except for the colour of piping. If someone has a Flak cap without a unit stamp in it then it's "Nice cap, pity there is no unit stamp in it" - but lo and behold when it is a HG-cap in question they say "no way, without the unit stamps it cannot be legit" - the ONLY DIFFERENCE between a Flak cap and a HG cap from a customers (here the soldier purchasing) point of view is that the Flak has red piping and that the HG-cap has white piping.

This double standard is amusing and tragic at the same time, as it is inherently anachronistic and caused by faulty reasoning. So, if this cap is not legit because it doesn't have a Geprüft-stamp that literally thousands of original caps today in collections doesn't have, then I guess there are thousands of collectors out there with caps they thought were original, which must really be fake because they have no approvement stamp...

Regards,

Kenneth S-H.