Hitler Youth Keissinger Pin

[naptime]

I'm constantly amazed at how bad people can be at photographing things. I know there have been repros of this pin but also know that original ones are fairly valuable. Can anyone tell if this one is good? I'd like to own it but only if it passes that WarRelics gauntlet.

[Walkwolf]

I was under the impression that war-time badges
were painted, and not enameled.........

[naptime]

If that is true about the badges being painted during war years, that's a tremendous help. I hadn't heard that.

[StuG III]

Best I could do.

[Watchdog]

I was under the impression that war-time badges
were painted, and not enameled.........

Good afternoon gents,

This is definately not true and is something that fools many collectors.

The 1944 badges were painted zinc but the 1938 and 1939 competition badges were brass (or tombak if you prefer) and enamel.

The pictures are not good enough to thoroughly explore this badge but one thing sticks out like a sore thumb. There was no competition in 1942 therefore there were no 1942 badges.

This again is something that fools many as the natural assumption tends to there being a badge for every year, not so! During the war the TR authorities had other things on their minds and the competition was re-visited in 1944 in an attempt to lift morale. It is easy to understand why the 1944 badges were made with less high quality materials as enamel is production intense and Germany has no copper source of its' own and this metal was too precious to make badges with by that time.

Don't need to say more about this badge though except stay away!

Regards

Mark
PS This is one of thos German compound words; Kreis meaning something a bit like county and still used today and Sieger ie victor or winner.

The other classes were Gau meaning something like region and Reich meaning national.

[harryamb2]

its bad.

[Walkwolf]

Thanks for the clarification Mark.

I used to own a silver 1938 Gausieger badge
and remember very little about them........

[naptime]

Awesome info guys. Thanks a lot. I learn a lot here.

[naptime]

Thanks Stug for cleaning up those terrible pics

[Watchdog]

Thanks for the clarification Mark.
I used to own a silver 1938 Gausieger badge
and remember very little about them........

To be fair Steve, I suppose the term "War time" can in the area of WWII nazi militaria, sometimes be a little subjective. For that reason I prefer to use the term "Third Reich" and qualify this by adding "early" Late" etc. So to apply the term "war time" would really confine one to the 1944 badge only

In this case the maker appears to be represented as AG Tham which is correct for this badge but I think far less common than H Aurich as in the example below.

It surprises me just how heavily faked these badges are as the Kreissieger is not the rarest of TR badges. The Gau and especially the Reich ones are a different matter though.

I have attached a couple of pics to illustrate the diffence between a good badge and the average fake.

To state the obvious it is the Gau badge that is the fake;
It is made of white metal rather than plated tombak, it is considerably heavier in hand than an original, the obverse detail is poor, the HJ diamond is badly defined with flaws in the enamel and the background to the red is not pebbled, the gear cog behind the the diamond is shockingly poor when compared to an original or to the general standard of TR badges and on the reverse the maker mark is incuse when it should be in relief. I keep the Gau badge for reference and bought it as a fake for tens of pounds rather than hundreds

I hope this is helpful.

Regards

Mark