BGS Thread

[Watchdog]

Here's another intriguing item.

Massively over-engineered from a military field use point of view and so typically German

Regards

Mark

[Watchdog]

This is another "weighty" piece of kit when the big old "D" cell batteries are added but I think these are fascinating pieces with several versions of the basic design. This is about the earliest I have seen.

Regards

Mark

[James C]

[QUOTE=Watchdog;1631051]Well, further to the above. My latest info which I admit is anecdotal (from a German police source) is that the light grey M53 helmet was a W.Berlin police item used by those "light infantry" type units that organised as part of W.Berlin Police rather than BGS for political reasons as the "Allies" were the protecting powers under the Quadripartite agreement which meant in reality that civil police was OK but border guards would be a No No

I served in Berlin and worked quite closely at times with such units who did have MGs and "little tanks" but by that time (late '80s) they were wearing all green rather than sumpftarn and soft headgear. I don't think I ever saw a steel helmet. Anyway, that's my latest info. Anybody else know different?

Attachment 966457Attachment 966458Attachment 966459Attachment 966460

The colour is a little off in the pics. It is actually a fairly light grey.

Regards


Great information Mark your grey example would be manufactured by Linnemann & Schnetzer ,Ahlen ,Germany

[CBH]

I love the German use of plastic in and on canteen cups , I have a 3 piece canteen with alligator paint and plastic bits Don't Burn Me . Something loud and useless really , over engineered to the extreme , I believe you've posted one you have .

[Watchdog]

Nothing very remarkable about this except that it is the correct colour and BGS marked rather than the more common shades of grey.

Otherwise, very similar to the wartime item. Just a nice example of a correct BGS piece in very good used condition.

Regards

Mark

[Watchdog]

Here is a good marked example of the type.

Maker marked and dated on the rear, unit marked to GSA A Mitte or Grenzschutzabteilung Ausbildung Mitte (Central Border Protection Unit Training ) which would be either GSAA Mitte 1 at Alsfeld or GSAA Mitte 2 at Fuldatal which in turn were subordinate to GSK (Grenzschutzkommando) Mitte at Kassel and also marked with the name of the owner. So a very nicely complete set of markings.

Regards

Mark

[James C]

Very nice breadbag Mark ,ive got to be honest im not familiar with the green colouration type,nice to see Bund issue too ,as we know the Bunderswehr were never issued breadbags so it can only be BGS issue so perfect for your display ,it looks to be dated 1977 ,As for you BGS Feldflasche i notice it has button poppers ,i only say this as mine has a zipper instead ,nice to see your work in progress taking shape
Thanks james

[Watchdog]

Very nice breadbag Mark ,ive got to be honest im not familiar with the green colouration type,nice to see Bund issue too ,as we know the Bunderswehr were never issued breadbags so it can only be BGS issue so perfect for your display ,it looks to be dated 1977 ,As for you BGS Feldflasche i notice it has button poppers ,i only say this as mine has a zipper instead ,nice to see your work in progress taking shape
Thanks james

Thanks for the input James. I think your point about unfamiliarity with the green colour of these bags is a common issue with collectors. There is nowhere near as much freely available info on BGS as there is on other related subjects and several other organisations used this type of bag. I think most collectors know as you say that the BW did not take up the breadbag so the general assumption is that any post war items must be by default BGS. Not so, and most of the grey ones I have seen were in fact from the THW, a totally civilian support service and not military or para-military at all.
As for the feldflasche case with zipper rather than press-studs, I have seen those but I must admit to not knowing if they were earlier, later or concurrent items. However, I don't believe they would have been very reliable in field use and the zips would be an absolute nightmare, impossible to do anything with in the event of even partial failure Contamination of any kind would be very difficult to remove and would case the teeth to jam. The normal physical stresses of field use would likely damage the zip and cause it to fail. From my own experience of field kit I think I could count on one hand the number of items of personal equipment fitted with zip closures. Press-studs and buttons, simple and oldfashioned but certainly the way to go IMHO

Regards

Mark

[Watchdog]

Good afternoon gents,

An item of some mystery to most of us and one of which I would appreciate some discussion here.

It is widely known that there was no factrory made and service issued helmet cover used by BGS although many sumpftarn parka hoods ended up used in this way.

As I understand it there were also many produced under local arrangements by units themselves often out of zeltbahn and surplus / scrap uniform material.

Here are two that I have that don't appear to be re-purposed hoods. One looks like zeltbahn material and is the less professional looking of the two. It has an elastic draw. The other is of very different cloth that may be uniform material but I don't really recognise the weave. The draw in this one is exactly like the ribbon in a beret or similar headress. This one, whilst I don't feel it is a "fake" in the way we collectors tend to use the word, seems to me that it may be a factory made "private purchase" type sold to personnel in the way that is seen in "regimental" shops in barracks in many forces. Both covers came from the same reliable source, a serving German police officer.

I would welcome any information / discussion / opinion on these items.

Regards

Mark

[James C]

Your welcome Steve thanks for you insight regarding zips,i do see your point about that zipper jamming with dirt Great looking stahlhelm covers one seems very TR in appearance especially with the angled foliage bands ,the other is reminicent of the swiss covers with the complete horizontal band ,very interesting and nothing of the like ive ever seen ,im guessing here but the the material used might be from the earlier pattern bgs sumpfmuster 1950's to 60's the russet colours seem quite blurred ,the raindrop patterns seem to crisp to be the 2nd pattern sumpftmuster which has a more washed out appearance
as for the breadbags its been nice to see a variety of colours shown on this thread
keep up the great work ,james