question about officers caps (schirmmütze) used in the early 4th SS Polizei Div.

**wunderwafe** · 09-04-2017, 07:22 PM

Hello.
I have a question; what caps were used by members ss pol. div? Is it possible to members 4th ss pol. div in early period used caps Schupo? Officers and NCO can by used schirmmütze Schupo (with light green piping, dark brown headband and metal polizei emblem and metal cockade)?
Sorry for the question but i am a total layman..

I think about this photo:
post #13 (2 picture)
SS-Sturmmann's M42, is this Authentic???

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 09-04-2017 07:22 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**HPL2008** · 09-04-2017, 07:32 PM

Yes. Prior to the changeover to full SS badges and insignia, personnel of the SS-Polizei-Division were kitted out with a mix of police, army and SS items.

See this thread for an example of a police cap worn by a member of the SSPD: SS-Sturmmann's M42, is this Authentic???

**wunderwafe** · 09-04-2017, 08:58 PM

Does is mean that the members of the SS-Polizei-Division used all variants of police caps?Depending on which formations the members came from? for example Schupo, Sipo, Kripo, Orpo etc.

**wunderwafe** · 09-04-2017, 09:03 PM

Any kind (variants) of police caps could be used by members 4th SS Polizei Div. ?

**HPL2008** · 09-04-2017, 09:17 PM

by wunderwafe

Does is mean that the members of the SS-Polizei-Division used all variants of police caps?Depending on which formations the members came from? for example Schupo, Sipo, Kripo, Orpo etc.

Slightly simplified: when the division was formed, active Orpo members arrived in their Orpo uniforms (whether all of them came from the Schupo - which I suspect - or if there were also members from other Orpo branches, I do not know for sure), police reinforcements came kitted out in obsolete Landespolizei uniforms and personnel from Army replacement units wore Army uniforms.
After this transitional phase, Army-/Waffen-SS pattern uniforms were issued throughout, with police-style field- and peaked caps still in use for some time parallel to other headgear. Police cap badges and Police/Army collar patches were all retained until February 1942, when full SS insignia were adopted. (This is all described in more detail in Vol. VII of Mollo.)

(By the way: Sipo (Sicherheitspolizei) was just the collective designation for the plain clothes police (Kripo and Gestapo), Orpo (Ordnungspolizei) for the uniformed police. So, the Kripo was just a part of the Sipo and the Schupo a part of the Orpo.)

The top photo above shows the divisional commander Alfred Wünnenberg wearing a first-model police Hausmütze and an Army-model enlisted ranks' field blouse.