Early jawless Totenkopf

**talltom** · 10-23-2011, 08:08 PM

i think ive just worked out what it is i think its a heer assualt lapel badge for use on their rap tunics i attach a photo

have a look at yours and see if tehy match these are still hard to find and expensive

(like most cool things

)

tom

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 10-23-2011 08:08 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Adrian Stevenson** · 10-23-2011, 08:33 PM

Hi Tom, I don't think it is a Heer Panzertruppen collar tab insignia. It is a bit too large.

The problem is, there are a myriad of designs of jawless skulls. Most are Imperial in origin (Or later Heer tradional Regtimental cap badges) and many got utilised by the SS in the early days.

Cheers, Ade.

**ToxicGas** · 10-23-2011, 09:16 PM

Thanks for posting those and helping out Tom. That skull you posted is quite similar, but Ade is right, and when you compare details it is clear they're different. I suppose the great number of designs of the first pattern accounts for the lack of knowledge on this one, I get the impression it's lost to historical obscurity! Perhaps eventually I'll stumble across a photo of one being worn, be it according to regulations or otherwise.

Mat

**DougB** · 10-24-2011, 12:00 AM

I believe you have a Heer 5th Cavalry Tradition badge, they used 2 types and are oft mistaken for SS skulls. It is not a Panzer collar tab or SS or WW1 skull. Tony from Kaisers Bunker has done some excellent work on skull lineage of these types.

Cheers
Doug

**ToxicGas** · 10-24-2011, 12:24 PM

by DougB

I believe you have a Heer 5th Cavalry Tradition badge, they used 2 types and are oft mistaken for SS skulls. It is not a Panzer collar tab or SS or WW1 skull. Tony from Kaisers Bunker has done some excellent work on skull lineage of these types.

Cheers
Doug

Hi Doug, I'll have to look for his info on these later. As for the two 5th Cavalry variants, are they not these two that I have? These are both from the Berlin factory find.

Mat

**Adrian Stevenson** · 10-24-2011, 06:05 PM

Hi Mat, you are correct, these are 5th Cav Regt tradition skulls.

Cheers, Ade.

**Calvaria** · 10-25-2011, 12:01 AM

Hi Toxic
Here you go -same type skull as yours.
Mine is a dug,but every piece including prongs are orginal.
I think prongs on your skull are not orginal they were attached later.
Pls dont be sad for me this is my only private opnion.
Also some of this Berliner skulls for me are fake esspecialy this witch blazed type prongs Couple weeks ago I have oportunity to carrefully check this skull and the price was 40 $ (: Dealer was mutch better in Nazi regalia like me (except skulls).
If this skull is orginal his asking price 40 $ dosent make sense.He was to foxy
I saw many skulls in my live im also a owner of some skulls and this ,,Berliner,, in my private opnion are fake.
Sorry Toxic if you are sad for me
Thanks
Peter

**ToxicGas** · 10-25-2011, 11:02 AM

Hi Peter, it's great to see another example. I'm trying to compare the back of mine with yours, the prongs may have been re-attached, but then they look similar to those on yours- it's hard to tell from your photos. Either way, I don't really care for the back of these badges, it's the front I'm interested in so it doesn't really matter. Prongs / no prongs / reattached is all the same to me.

As for the Berlin-found tradition skulls, I'm not sure what you mean. Why do you think they're fake? Can you post what you believe to be originals? You also said a few days ago in another thread that you agreed mine were original. Please see Ade's thread on them- https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/heer-...in-hoard-1177/ -I believe other members have posted about this hoard of skulls before too, with photos of many of them, but this thread was all I could find with the search bar.

Mat