Early style Totenkopf.....ok?

**Wagriff** · 10-20-2011, 11:40 PM

Uhhh...okey..

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 10-20-2011 11:40 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Pablo** · 10-22-2011, 05:54 PM

Thanks for your comments. I'm not a specific collector of TKs and got this one in a batch of other items I bought in Germany. I just wanted to know if it was an obvious fake so can get rid of it.

**Wagriff** · 10-22-2011, 08:50 PM

We hear where you're coming from, Pablo. William

**Teutonicknights** · 10-22-2011, 08:51 PM

by Wagriff

Uhhh...okey..

lol

**BenVK** · 10-22-2011, 09:12 PM

by jHAM

Showing a scull and asking for an estimation without expending some effort and asking people who have spent such effort for an appraisal without doing so yourself is uncouth to say the least. Finally, no one should cast any dispersions or accusations towards F-B. His effort to educate and share his experience with the downright mean anonymous internet world has been epic. His reward for doing so has often been mistreatment. I say THANK YOU F-B!! for your unrewarded effort. He and a few other notable people Bob Coleman, Bob Hritz, Ade (our leader on this site) and a few others have taken on the entire flighty internet world of SS regalia and their knowledge has benefited us all.

I couldn't agree more with this statement.

Anyone wishing to learn about SS cap insignia or any facet of the TR for that fact has only to spend some time on researching the subject via online forums. All the information is there, granted, it's not all in one place, is usualy not complete and it does take considerable personal effort to find the answers but surely, that's what the hobby is all about? It's fascinating and compelling but also frustrating and takes lots of hard work and study time. I'm all for trying to help the next generation of collectors but how does answering their "original or fake" thread really help them to help themselves? It doesn't. It just teaches them that all they have to do is post a few photos on a forum and nothing more.

Anyone who has done the least bit of research on this subject will know which collectors have really put the work in. There are 2 or 3 very knowledgeable people that I know of, one guy in particular has really immersed himself into the subject but gives very little away and I don't blame him for that at all. As I understand it, his aim is to write a book one day so I completely understand why he doesn't divulge everything free of charge online. That would be ridiculous.

I really do get frustrated with these kind of discussions because I just don't understand why there is this all consuming general assumption that within this hobby, you can just log on and start demanding answers to the same old questions with no or little effort to search previous threads. I've said it before a million times but just try doing that on any other online forum regarding other subjects. I'm a member of a Japanese sword forum and a drum forum and the rules are 10 times more strick regarding this. If you make no attempt to introduce yourself, explain why you want answers, or show that you've done some research already, your threads will be quickly deleted and you will get an official warning. On the drum forum, they even have an abbreviation for it and they use it regularly, it's UTSF (Use The Search Function) My first 2 or 3 threads just had UTSF replies and nothing else!

We really are so lenient and generous on this and other TR collecting forums it's quite amazing.

**Wagriff** · 10-22-2011, 09:23 PM

True, giving a simple fake or not fake answer does not teach the collector to learn how to research something, but it Does have an actual benefit of sorts when you look at it. Having established that he either has or hasn't an original gives him a "standard" or "template" to go by and thereby helps start His data bases as well. If he has, say, been told that his Cap Skull is original, then that gives him a standard to base the next similar discovery he makes by. He can then Compare it to his known fake or original piece.
And what you say, Ben is absolutely true! I am sure there are Legions of collectors out there just Waiting for this definitive book to be published! It will Totally be needed and be most thirstily welcomed! I know that I am most curious to see it published in light of day soon too! William

**ToxicGas** · 10-22-2011, 09:42 PM

by Wagriff

True, giving a simple fake or not fake answer does not teach the collector to learn how to research something, but it Does have an actual benefit of sorts when you look at it. Having established that he either has or hasn't an original gives him a "standard" or "template" to go by and thereby helps start His data bases as well. If he has, say, been told that his Cap Skull is original, then that gives him a standard to base the next similar discovery he makes by. He can then Compare it to his known fake or original piece.

-This is why I followed the advice of collecting reference pictures of real and fake examples, it helps a lot. I have many photos in both folders now, which I always refer to upon checking a piece.

Also, you can look at this issue both ways too... it's not always people asking for a one-word 'real' or 'fake' verdict, often people want to understand WHY, but verdicts are given without explanation. As BenVK said, that is far less useful than knowing how to assess the piece themselves.

Mat

**Adrian Stevenson** · 10-22-2011, 10:10 PM

Sadly a lot of collectors don't learn, they don't want too, as they are simply too lazy. For them, a one word answer will suffice. They will then move onto to their next "Is it real and how much is is worth" type post. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I am afraid it is true. Collecting is not just about acuminating the shiney things. It really ought to be an intelectual and historical excerise. Or perhaps I am just old fashioned?

I have been online since 1999 and have very actively partaken on forums ever since at a senior level. I have watched many people grow and learn but the majority don't. Which for me is sad.

Mat has followed a simple bit of advice which I have avocated many a time: save pics into "Good" and "Bad" folders. It prevents you from asking questions which have been asked countless times before.

Everyone has to start somewhere, we were all novices once. The newbie of course has to be given some latitude. There is no such thing as a stupid question. But if people don't quickly start to learn, by doing a bit of work themselves, well there is a limit to what we can do. This forum encourages, I hope, the new collector by showing him or her the right way to go about having a sucessful hobby.

You must forgive me if I just say "Good" or Bad" at times. I have given chapter and verse on items countless times and still the same question will come up again and again.

Good old Books and the Search function are the way to go.

Cheers, Ade.

**BenVK** · 10-22-2011, 10:12 PM

I think it comes down to the way you ask.

If you just post a photo and ask real or fake, why should you expect anything other than a one word answer if any answer at all?

**Calvaria** · 10-23-2011, 10:23 AM

I,ve learned a lot from this forum about skulls.
But Im still learning.
Especially Danziger type skulls are sometimes hard to recognice false or orginal.
As Toxic Gas wrote we have to post orginal and false skulls pics as a reference pics.
After a disscusion will be much easier to be a ,,perfect skull collector,,
Dont let theaft robbed us from our hard worked earning money.
But in disscusion we have to avoid such words as ,,Im old collector I know everything and you dont know nothing because you are started collecting,,
Any opinion have to be considered.
Thanks Peter