SA Sturmfahne 22/66 (Standarte Münster), need help with pole top

[Delmenhorst]

Got this SA flag today. It has quite a bit of moth holes and the attachment loops are missing, but the colors are still lush and it's got a lot of character IMO!
It also smells very old, like something that's been sitting in the attic forever. It measures ca. 130x150 cm with fringes, which I believe is correct.

I know next to nothing about these flags, to which years in the NSDAP history do these typically date to?

I'd also like to find a matching pole top for this. Can anyone please show me what is the correct Fahnenspitze used with these flags?

Thank you for looking!

[Wilhelm Saris]

There existed a Standarte 66 in the district Mitte, listed in 1935, at Neuhaldensleben
and further in later years.
But Mitte did not use green according to the color-list system, but orange-yellow.

I really would not know if things are correct. I do not have an explanation!

[Wilhelm Saris]

Just this morning I noticed the first post and mentioning Standarte Münster.

Here I have to correct things. Münster, which was located within the SA-group of Westfalen,
had a brigade 66 Münster. Brigades however did not have flags.
Just a Standarte had. The patch mentions the unit (Sturm).

There was a Reiterstandarte 66 within brigade 66. They officially had the specific swallow-tale flags.
It is a possibility 22/66 in its beginnings, they may have carried for a short time the regular Sturm-flag.
But about that I have never read any information.

Too me it looks the patch is green and that is my main problem. Westfalen DID NOT have this color.
The color for Westfalen was since September 1933 dark wine-red.
Delmenhorst is the color indeed green?

Other information:
in March 1942 number 66 was not listed any longer with the remaining Standartes, nor was the Reiterstandarte.
The entire brigade 66 was "put on ice" (für die Dauer des Krieges stillgelegte Dienststellen).

[Delmenhorst]

Hello, Mr. Saris. Thank you so much for your time and input. The seller mentioned on the listing that this 22/66 is connected to Münster, that's all I have on this flag.

I started looking into this more and discovered much of the same what you now told me in your second post. (a Reiterstandarte 66 being located in Münster, the Standarte colors being wrong). The color is indeed problematic and yes it is dark green on the flag, I will take better pictures soon as I get some daylight.

[Wilhelm Saris]

I do not have an explantion. In my opinion even the embroidry for the numbers
is not according to regulations.
When the seller got his information from? Have no idea, but 66 was a brigade
there and not a Standarte (an often made mistake).

[Delmenhorst]

It's from Hermann Historica. I'm going to send them an enquiry about this.
This one was a blind purchase but I got plenty of good deals lately so I'm fine if this turns out to be a stinker.
More pictures in natural light:

[Wilhelm Saris]

Do you really think they will admit they are wrong? I know they won't,
as it is tried to correct them in the past by many persons! If they assert
otherwise, they do not have knowledge about this subject. Period!!



When the first flag orders were presented with an SA-Befehl from
June 28, 1929. It says that every Sturm has a Sturmfahne and
has positioned a patch, which is to and according the patch for
the collar. This did not change and with a large order from
November 28, 1938 (FO 2b 13723) the look of the flags was
again described as many flags were not according to the orders.
The regulation includes the Sturmfahne (for every Sturm); the
flag for Reiterstürme and how to position honor names and
traditions-numbers. The tekst included how the patches should
look like.

Here a small part from "Dienstvorschrift für die SA der NSDAP", Heft 2
from 1932 (note only the Sturmfahne and Standarte did exist and it is
said no other flags were to be carried, exception were command-flags):



Further shown a part from the FO order from November 1938. Remind
the flag for Reiterstürme should have the swallow-tail and not the form
as the Sturmfahne:



Also shown the part from the SA-group Westfalen from the official
adress-list from 1937:




And to make it complete for you, a part from Erlass 2 from the OSAF
from July 7, 1933 where the colors were adapted and arranged. Here
Westfalen is noted:



One can also consult "Ringkragen und Brustschilder im Dritten Reich",
which I wrote with my friend Andrew Mollo and which was published
by VDM in 2012. The chapter about SA also includes the flags with
which a gorget was used and worn and so also the mentioned flags
in this post (many photos are shown).

[Friedrich-Berthold]

Hurra for Wim. Hurra for knowledge!

Someone should take all of Wim's posts a make a book of them.

[Wilhelm Saris]

Someone should take all of Wim's posts a make a book of them.

Much flag information is to be found in the earlier mentioned book:
"Ringkragen und Brustschilder im Dritten Reich". Most people do not
have any idea how much information can be found in there!
As often mentioned before, for many it is a pity it is with German text
and it does cost!
There are lots of flag photos as gorgets were often worn with them…..


Großformat, 704 Seiten, über 1500 Fotos, davon viele in Farbe.
Preis 119,00 euro

[Friedrich-Berthold]

It is a bargain at 120 Euros. We are grateful for all your fine work.

I had your cap book in hand yesterday.

People who are serious about this pursuit should learn German, and good for them if they do.

A lot of work here could be avoided in that case, or, we could have better debates and inquiries.