German VDM aircraft propeller from Dorset

[packin9]

I had a few drinkies on board when I posted :-) however I digress, I would love to have seen it preserved as close to original as possible and not chromed, Imagine if we took a double decal ss relic helm with 90% original decals extant and chromed the rest of it????

I don't think it was chromed$$$$$$$ Just a lot of elbow work!

[mad_ideas]

looks to be elbow work to me to! rather who ever did it than me!
im just a little curious as to how you define "as close to original as possible" napalm do you mean in the state it came out the sea with little or no original paint and in a state which i would have thought it would have corroded at a steady rate or do you mean shot blasted (as has been done on the hub by the looks of it) and then painted to look orignal
great post
regards Mad.ideas

[dogdog47]

Hi Neal
you will find serial no etc on the bottom end of the prop blades you would need to srip them out of the hub to find them. it's a gues but i think they could be HE111. there are a few different prop shapes used by the Germans in ww2 with lots of interchangability so it could be from at least three or four types.
hope this helps
Andy

[Falschirmjager]

Hi all. I know that there are some very knowledgeable people out there and would like some help please. About 2 years ago I purchased an aircraft propeller that was recovered by divers /a diving club from Dorset just off the coast of Mupe Bay, itself on the Jurassic coast near Lulworth. It was quite corroded and I have now had it mirror polished and it sits in my living room.

Given the precision of the location from which the propeller was recovered I would be interested whether anyone has any suggestions as to which aircraft it comes from and which loss. I would also welcome information as to where I might find serial numbers or other identifiers to give further clues.

I will look forward to hearing from you and thank you in advance for any responses.

Thanks

Neil

Neil, Thats a fine item and the restoration work you have carried out on it is admirable. I know there is a fine line between preservation and the restoration of war relics but as ive said before now that you have taken the time and effort to clean and preserve this piece it will still be here in another 50-60 years time and beyond! You often make an assessment with these things and know if something needs a complete clean and the metal treating with preservatives etc and youve done a great job so well done! As for what this prop came from-it is similar in some ways to the Bf109G5/R2 propeller hub i used to own and that said the FW190 also used similar type to that. Other possibilties are there though and one wonders the fate of its crew who would have been listed as missing, its fascinating stuff and well done again as its good that you are pleased with it and value it so much. Regards, Tim.

[Matt L]

Anyone know if it was usual to have an open shaft all the way through the propeller and all the gearing behind it? I'd always expected special provision had to be made for the Bf109F/G's cannon- but maybe not?

[Falschirmjager]

Anyone know if it was usual to have an open shaft all the way through the propeller and all the gearing behind it? I'd always expected special provision had to be made for the Bf109F/G's cannon- but maybe not?

There were no special provisions incorporated into either the F or G series Bf109's for the central firing cannon. Only the cannon barrel ran through the centre of the engine, reduction gear and propeller boss. The breech of the cannon was enclosed in a box between almost between the pilots legs and secured shut with a leather strap. The Bf109F was fitted with a 15-mm Mauser MG151 cannon but this was soon replaced with the 20-mm MG151/20 cannon. The main problem with the 15-mm gun was excessive barrel wear due to the extremely high muzzle velocity of some 3,000 ft/sec very high for a weapon of its day! Later models of the G series were armed with a 30-mm Rheinmetal Borsig MK108 cannon. The blast tube running through centre of the engine had a diameter of approx 50-mm and remained same for all the Bf109 armament configurations. Hope this helps. Best Regards, Tim.

[Matt L]

So the answer is yes, German propellers all had an open shaft like this then? That would have helped the identification. I know all about the 109's armaments- just not whether or not the propeller/ gearing design was altered to accept the cannon barrels or not

[Dali]

Thank you all for posting and for your kind comments. I am, after all, no closer to discovering the provenance of the item. Perhaps one day I will have the blades taken out of the hub and look for the numbers ! Thanks all. Neil

[drew]

Hi Neil
I have posted a picture of where to look for the part number.
It should be one of these:
9-11 012.23 Ju86
9-11 012.24 Ju86
9-11 014.23 He111 Bf110
9-11 085.24
9-11 014.24 Do17
9-11 081.25 Do215 Ju88 Bf109E&F
9-11 081.26 He111 Ju88 Bf109E&F
9-11 212.21 D026
9-11 111.21 Do24 He115
9-11 256.20 Ju86p
9-11 256.22 Ardo196 Bv222 Fw200
Hope that helps, good luck finding the number.
Regards
Drew

[Falschirmjager]

So the answer is yes, German propellers all had an open shaft like this then? That would have helped the identification. I know all about the 109's armaments- just not whether or not the propeller/ gearing design was altered to accept the cannon barrels or not

The 109E variant had same shaft which originally in early marks housed a 20-mm Oerlikon MGFF cannon. This was soon found to be unreliable as an engine mounted cannon and withdrawn in the field. The shaft was then ducted to serve as a cooler for the generator. But it does seem the shaft diameter was pretty much uniform for all marks by look of it. The difference came in the design of the propellers and prop boss themselves. That 109 G5 prop boss i had weighed around 250lbs at a guess and was a huge great thing without the blades which were gone. It was obviously a special type made for the beefed up engine of this photo recce version from which it came. Id certainly continue researching as surely someone will eventually be able to id this type. Have you tried the guys that do all the restorative work at Duxford? They may have better idea and worth contacting them. I think the main guy to ask here is Ray Hannah, a very kind helpfull and extremely knowledgeable man and fantastic display pilot who has flown virtually every type of WW2 fighter in flying condition Brit and Germ, give him a try i would. Cheers, Tim