US Sherman recovered from sea

**meyerse** · 10-03-2014, 11:17 PM

Muzzle break makes it look like an m4a2, but I'm no exprt, would make more sense on a U.S. ship headed to russia

**another ant** · 10-03-2014, 11:30 PM

you're right is a
M4A2(76)W Sherman (VVSS)

**Watchdog** · 10-06-2014, 03:27 PM

by meyerse

Why would an American convoy ship have a Brit tank on it?
Are you sure it is a firefly?

Yep, as I said at the top I stand to be correctec!. Looks like I was a bit quick off the mark just looking at the length of the gun with what seemed like the late war muzzle brake.

Looking again, this one has a flatter turret roof and gun mantlet than the more rounded ones of the Firefly and also the turret extension is less pronounced. So, M4A2 (76) W it would seem to be

Maybe I should get back in practice!

For all that though the two are quite similar and the US 76mm T1 gun (replaced the 75mm gun from Summer '44 I think but was used by 2nd Tank Army in the battle for Berlin

) was fairly similar in performance to the Brit 17 Pdr. The T1 was more accurate whilst the 17 Pdr had greater penetration but the numbers are close.

Pity it isn't a Firefly though as they are much more rare than the M4A2.Maybe we should start an AFV recognition thread somewhere, it might be entertaining?

Regards

Mark

**vwbug1971** · 10-06-2014, 04:55 PM

Is it even possible to restore such a rusted body, probably both interior and exterior? It would have to be a real labor of love, and very time consuming, IMO.

**Adrian Stevenson** · 10-06-2014, 05:12 PM

It would certainly be restorable. Other tanks have been raised from the sea and are now running.

**Watchdog** · 10-08-2014, 10:56 AM

by vwbug1971

Is it even possible to restore such a rusted body, probably both interior and exterior? It would have to be a real labor of love, and very time consuming, IMO.

Yes of course, the steel of an AFV hull is so thick that simple sandblasting can sometimes be all that is required before a re-paint.

Also, a tank is not a delicate "show car" and this one was likely fresh from the factory so all the moving parts would be nice and close fitting with original grease packing in bearings etc plus factory preservative on most parts. Naturally any fabric items would have rotted as would the road wheel tyres and any other rubber items but all these can be replaced with original items or even remanufactured "restoration" pieces. Electrical systems are mostly wire and switches which have not changed that much if originals cannot be sourced and wire is well, wire

. If one were to insist on 100% originality it may take longer but would probably be achievable with a Sherman although with some electrical parts it might not be advisable (or even legal in some cases). In any case, how many vintage motor cars are restored to 100% authentic running originality? Not many I would suggest. All things considered this is probably a viable restoration project. However, cost and whether it is economical given the number of these still in working order is another matter

I expect a coat of paint and a concrete plinth are what awaits this one.

Regards

Mark

**vwbug1971** · 10-09-2014, 04:11 AM

Thanks Mark.

I didn't give any thought to the thickness of the metal, but then, some marvelous restoration was given to this piece of Titanic history now owned by Jay Leno. I just discovered he bought it from the heir to a tycoon couple who died on the Titanic for $180,000 and it is now worth $1 million. The rifle below was discovered on the Titanic and was not restored.

to this:

**pitfighter** · 10-09-2014, 05:27 PM

That is a picture of a Vg1-5 rifle made in the waning days of WW2 -
(Anyone who has a passing interest in German last ditch weapons would recognize it.)

Here is an article about it -To Restore or not to Restore? « Forgotten Weapons

Now...

...If it was discovered on the Titanic would't that be a twist in time

**vwbug1971** · 10-09-2014, 11:21 PM

Thanks, pitfighter. I enjoyed getting to understand how some relics are cleaned. The article about whether or not to clean the rifle let me believe he was going for it. Good for him.
David

**WillC** · 10-10-2014, 03:18 AM

In Normandy near Bayeux, theres a private museum where there are at least 6 of these recovered tanks. There was an M7 Priest, DD sherman, Stuart, and one more sherman. It also has huge anchors and a few large recovered guns. It was quite amazing. Ill try to upload some pics. In bayeux I also found a german bunker, but sadly it was sealed off. If you go to Normandy, I reccomend staying in Bayeux, its a lovely little town with nice little resturants and fresh sea food! Sadly, I wasnt able to stop by some of the museums at Ohmaha Beach. I got an amazing tour from a guy who was an absolute expert of Normandy. He knew the name of each bunker at each beach and knew alot of things. He was very nice too.