Fake M34 SS Blackie being sold by eMedals

[geelong]

Being part of the community and being active in that community will get you all the answers you need , in this particular case Doug did his own homework and with the use of new techniques he was able to recognize this as a fake. The new technique being advanced digital magnification.
There's a lot to learn about helmets and the information is out there , the only thing required is that you invest your time in it and your money. You won't get anywhere with just reading topics and not getting a feel for original helmets. It's a process that takes a lot of time but you everyone with common sense can become an expert.
A very important part of this process is being able to recognize where the pit traps are , what are the helmet we know little of as a community. Avoid those till you can make your own case for or against them. And never trust just one person or book , never.

or just dont collect these helmets.

[DougB]

I notice that many of the helmets in question on emedals have now been removed from the site , I guess it should at least be commended that Michael has taken quick action , lets hope that his "staff" quickly learn to spot the obvious fake as this sort of thing is no good for business or the collector who is sold a duffer! Leon.

That is because they were sold Leon. Not because they are still for sale.

So, the fakes are therefore now removed I suspect not for reasons of integrity, and not because the dealer has a new found understanding of real vs fake. Leon, I think you are too quick to compliment this dealer over his choices and helmet selection until we find out if he also will be refunding his buyers who bought these helmets he withdrew from his site.

I think they were removed to hide them.

Perhaps Michael would like to post these helmets here for discussion and not just take my word on it. When experienced collectors agree that these helmets I pointed out, all of which I believe were marked SOLD, are fake, he can then contact the buyers and give them a refund, like how I did with the person who bought this fake SS helmet from me years before, and prove his statement on his website and made here in public as fact and not just empty promises.

Integrity is not bought or sold, but earned.

[DougB]

or just dont collect these helmets.

I wish there were an UNLIKE button because I would give this a big fat UNLIKE. ;-)

Seriously - dont collect anything if you are not comfortable with your choices.

[DougB]

Contrary to some of you in this forum have this SS helmet opened my eyes .
What apparently happened is :

1. A "unique" M34 SS helmet is bought, owned and sold by one of the most prominent person in this forum.

2. Same helmet is on two sides of the " Bible" of the SS helmets.

3. Same helmet is for sale by a rather famous militaria dealers . The helmet is described in their ad with: "An Extremely Rare Black M34 SS Helmet - This saught after Black SS helmet has been known as a " textbook "example of this type . It has appeared in the book ... "

4. Same helmet shows up in this forum in a post of number 1 .... ? where it is described as a forgery.

5. Same helmet removed by number 3 along with an apology in this forum.

6. No. 1 continues to criticize number 3 for their fake helmets.

7. No. 3 removes these helmets from his website .....

We could probably go on like this indefinitely - but the question I ask myself : who in the world can you trust when it comes to these SS helmets ?

It has often been written in this forum that it is knowledge that is the key to find a genuine SS helmet. This knowledge is said to be in this forum where you get to learn from the experienced collectors which decals are genuine but also which books you should have in order to acquire this knowledge. But how can I get this knowledge when the experienced collectors and dealers selling counterfeits and shows them in the books as 100% authentic?

Is it time to start questioning the prevailing truth of the helmets that are genuine or not, and try to find new persons and sources to gain the knowledge necessary to find a genuine SS helmet?

Your vast oversimplification of this topic is alarming indeed as is the misunderstanding of the context of the thread. This thread is to serve both as a warning that a fake which appears in a book is for sale and to make it clear that I broke the chain of custody and didn't pass it along to anyone else, rather to share my knowledge with others and advance the knowledge of the genre to make it even safer than it was, and I believe SS helmet collecting is very safe when you know what your talking about. Like flying a plane. I wouldn't attempt that without knowing what I was doing first.

I am surprised a post like this has taken so long, across 3 fora to come up and expected it a lot earlier to be honest. So here goes…..

I bought this helmet years ago when I was totally new to the genre of SS helmet collecting. I didn't buy it 3 years ago as you claim.
I bought this helmet from noted dealer who bought several helmets from a top SS helmet collector and was reselling them.
I bought this helmet knowing it was published by the foremost expert in the genre of SS helmet collecting.

In other words, I felt safe and secure knowing that the helmet HAD to be real. I was a new to the genre, I felt safe and secure knowing the dealer was reputable, the chain of custody was with former long time and knowledgable collectors, and it was published in a book by the reigning expert. How could it be a fake.

Years later (note the words, years later…) another SS collector who lives in Canada and always had asked to buy this helmet bought the helmet from me. Kelly even provided his COA.

Since that time of buying this helmet when I had little experience and I went from having a small selection of SS helmets to having hundreds through my hands as I was bound and determined to be my own expert and not rely on anyone else's opinion. I had begun researching them in depth and in detail, pioneering USB microscope analysis, used databasing of every detail of the helmets and decals, and owned at least 10 decal types at any given time of the common SS decals, and was acquiring every single variant I could find. I was buying every SS helmet I could find, studying it, and moving it along. I was also getting fakes in to study in detail, as you cannot know the top fakes without having them in hand. Collectors from all over the world have sent me their helmets to study and return to them, at my expense, both real and fake. I have spent countless hours and dollars on this project and learned much.

Shortly after selling this helmet, which I was told were early variant decals, boutique made and believed this to be true, a fellow collector in California contacted me about his black M35 double decal SS and wanted to know if he could send it to me for my review. WHen I received it I was dumbfounded. The decals were these exact decals and had matching fingerprints at 200 and 400 x magnification. Yet the helmet was a fake, the paint was postwar and chain-lashed.

I brought this helmet to SOS to share it in person with Kelly. The collector allowed me to keep the helmet and continue looking for more examples and I began an intensive search for more examples. When I say intensive, you need to know my personality. Intense is me just waking up in the morning. When I get focused on something, it usually happens come hell or high water or get out of the way.

I found another blackie with these decals on them and a civic fibre helmet with these exact decals on it and the helmet was postwar. All had the same fingerprints. Perfect matches. Then by sheer coincidence the exact same party decal was posted on WAF by an Australian collector when I had these in hand. As well, the other decal on this M42 was a fake police decal. The collector in Australia couldn't send me the helmet but shared with me more photos.

It was then I felt there was no question this helmet, the M34 in question, was an old but very good fake. I contacted my friend and revealed the bad news. He was refunded fully to his satisfaction. This was more than 2 years ago now. I had the helmet in my possession since and even featured the decal here in an SS decal quiz. I since have returned it to the dealer who refunded me earlier this year and was shocked to see it for sale on eMedals earlier this week as a real.

So, that is the story in its correct context and in its correct timelines. Not as so often happens here on forums, a huge oversimplification in order to make a point.

I believe I have demonstrated over the years a willingness to share my knowledge with other like minded collectors and advance the study of the genre of SS helmet collecting across 3 fora with other like minded collectors to what I believe is its safest point in collecting history. I also believe that one never stops learning, ever. Open direct dialogue and constructive criticism also overcomes cynical forum posts and brainless rock throwing and personal attacks that pervades forums, and with such dialogue collectors can actually learn something other than more forum innuendo and rumour. For evidence of such knowledge sharing please refer to the posts on SS decals pinned in this and other forums.

The bottom line is this Schalburg, I don't and never have claimed to be the SS decal king. I know what I know, I continue to learn, I freely share what I know, I try to help others when and as I can, and I will not ever stop learning the genre. I believe it is safer today than it has ever been for those that care to do their homework and network with other like minded hobbyist collectors.

I do this for "fun", supposedly although forums tend to suck the enjoyment and life out of the hobby for me and I more and more just keep to myself. Posts like yours are a reason why.

I spent as I said countless hours and dollars when I suspected otherwise to prove or disprove the helmet was real after I suspected it might not be, when I could have just shut up and said or did nothing. It took years to finally prove conclusively, that it was bad. I then shared this knowledge publicly.

If you believe because I chose not to believe what was posted in a book, a helmet was real because of who owned it before me, a helmet was real because of who was selling it, that it makes all of my knowledge suspect, feel free. However I can stand on my own two feet without help from you, Kelly Hicks or anyone else on the planet when it comes to SS helmets and can debate or discuss any topic on them with facts made from my own exhaustive hands on inspections, and not supposition or because "someone said so", which you seem to want.

[DougB]

3 years is not many years ago for me - and it worries me because the edition of Hicks book I have is an updated version, printed in 2010 ........

I have owned or had my hands on many if not most of the helmets in the book. Other than M42 ckl helmets with NS decals, I am satisfied what I have had hands on is 100% real.

At some point you have to buy helmets to learn from and not just reading books or you will sucker yourself to a life of collecting on what others say is real and not what you know.

[DougB]

BTW I want to add that I bought the helmet on trust. 100%.

I acquired more knowledge which was not public, and learned it was not real, over a period of years and of my own volition.

I then contacted whom I sold the helmet to, and refunded him fully and immediately again of my own volition.

Schalburg if that is a "mistake" then so be it. But I really find your post offensive and is a reason why many collectors who possess great knowledge and museum quality collections just quit these forums altogether or have never bothered with them.

However, I now cannot help but wondering aloud as a new member here if you are someone known to me from another forum with a hidden agenda and simply just want to discredit people with your loose innuendo and oversimplified supposition. It is a tactic that is often used on the "red" forum to quote another member here, by those who hide behind pretend silly forum names and are nothing more than keyboard kowboyz with book knowledge or worse, no knowledge and simply like to be trolls.

May I ask, what is your real name and have you ever been a member, banned or otherwise, of any other forum? If not accept my apologies in advance and forgive my paranoia. But I have suffered attacks on my person for posting what I know and believe and it pisses some off where it is counter to what is in a book, or what others were told by other experts. So I would love to know your real name Schalburg.

ANd maybe you are a collector who just reads books and doesn't know what to believe after reading this, if so again accept my apologies in advance.

[Glenn66]

Can't say fairer than that Schalburg, an honest request to reveal yourself without repercussion. Can you reveal yourself and your intentions?

[DougB]

I'd like to steer the conversation back to the matter of eMedals removing the sold fake helmets from their site. I sincerely hope the owners were contacted.

Again, I invite Michael the Manager of eMedals to post them here or GHW2 for discussion. He stated here on WRF he will refund anything not right and that is their policy stated in their business.

As this is a Canadian company and I have pretty good working knowledge of the laws that govern retail companies in our fine country including the Competition Act, and deal regularly with Consumer and Corporate Affairs Canada on unfair business practices, I'd like to point out to eMedals that they cannot hide evidence of former publicly sold items without government and perhaps legal investigation and repercussions.

If your a customer of eMedals and they will not refund you on a fake item sold as real or are now hiding the evidence from the public here is the site where you go to file a complaint and CCAC loves tackling consumer fraud cases.

http://www.competiti...ng/h_00130.html

Another avenue to use is Revenue Canada, who can ensure they have filed properly and remitting proper retail receipts including cash sales from shows.

Collectors in Canada buying from registered businesses have a pretty good ally in the Government if thr business wants to be obstinant about fair business practices.

[schalburg]

At first I thought not reply to your post, but since you are accusing me of having shady intentions and just be out to hurt so I want to clarify some things : I have no idea when you bought the helmet. What I write about three years aimed at what is written in the article that I answer was " Kelly who wrote this particular book also many years ago"... I still believe that 3 years is not many years ago.

Do you really think it is strange to be questioned at this time when a helmet that certainly costs more than most people can afford first described and sold as a treasure and then turns out to be an outright forgery ? The way you express yourself in this forum is typical of bullies where you do not pull you for carp down others, but when you yourself will be challenged , you will be offended , and more or less idiot explains me . As always bully has a number of fans for the leader and get in touch , but not until the conductor told them ,they never dare say anything first.

Now, I was disappointed in you , Mr Doug B.

The subject of discussion is over for me.

[DougB]

At first I thought not reply to your post, but since you are accusing me of having shady intentions and just be out to hurt so I want to clarify some things : I have no idea when you bought the helmet. What I write about three years aimed at what is written in the article that I answer was " Kelly who wrote this particular book also many years ago"... I still believe that 3 years is not many years ago.

Do you really think it is strange to be questioned at this time when a helmet that certainly costs more than most people can afford first described and sold as a treasure and then turns out to be an outright forgery ? The way you express yourself in this forum is typical of bullies where you do not pull you for carp down others, but when you yourself will be challenged , you will be offended , and more or less idiot explains me . As always bully has a number of fans for the leader and get in touch , but not until the conductor told them ,they never dare say anything first.

Now, I was disappointed in you , Mr Doug B.

The subject of discussion is over for me.

.....And this was the reply I half-expected.

Now I am a bully and a fraud, for exposing this helmet?

Seriously?

After refunding a collector his money after spending a pile of my own time and money to prove to myself that I myself had a fake that was published, bought from a reputable dealer with a chain of custody among the top SS helmet collectors?

This helmet has cost me thousands of dollars. Not you. Not the collector I sold it to. In fact, the collector would still have it if not for a chain of events that began years ago which had me initially questioning the helmet and begun the research to prove or disprove it.

Remember sir, that I contacted the collector to tell HIM what I sold him YEARS AGO was fake. NOT the other way round. In fact I was told it was "controversial" by a steward of this hobby, to which I replied NO ITS A FAKE. And then I exposed it here bieng sold by a company who has clearly sold many other fakes.

So please don't lecture me on morales, ethics and integrity Mr Anonymous.

I will bet the cost of this helmet with you sir, that 99% of the collectors and 100% of the dealers would not have gone to the lengths I did to find out the truth! Most would ignore it and not bother, saying well it's in a book. It must be real. No, I did not do that, sir. I uncovered the truth and made sure others knew about it when it was brought to my attention it was again for sale.

You clearly reference that 3 years is not a long time, suggesting this is a recent event.

And you resort to the tried and true bully card. Thank you.

So, putting that aside, exactly what is your question Schalburg?

I am open to any question. But I will not sit down and listen to this bull s h i t below from you or anyone else;

>>Do you really think it is strange to be questioned at this time when a helmet that certainly costs more than most people can afford first described and sold as a treasure and then turns out to be an outright forgery ?<<

Implying I had anything to do with this being sold as a fake or forgery or profited from it in any way, shape or form is in truly bad taste.

I was the one who uncovered it and broke the chain of custody spending my own time and money to do so. If you cannot see that and must disparage my reputation and resort to the bully card then your beyond any help I can provide.

I certainly wish you luck in your collecting endeavors, enjoy your collecting books. I hope you do not trust in the Radovic books too much.

edit - again trolls like this who have zero knowledge of the subject matter but like to toss out smears as "challenges" and "questions" by way of anonymous drive by postings are why forums have become a waste of time in my mind.