M42 SD CKL 5345 / Champagne

**ajax3985** · 02-16-2016, 08:16 PM

It is just a suggestion on my part but I would request Mr. Coleman step down from this topic and possibly have Adrian Stevenson come in and take over before this takes on a life of its own. Also anyone looking for a fight to refrain from inflaming this until it can be addressed.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 02-16-2016 08:16 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Danmark** · 02-16-2016, 10:13 PM

Guys - Over the last 6 years that I have been a member of this forum I have seen a lot of valued contributors depart as a result of comments from ‘faceless men’.
I too have copped some pseudo-vitriol which made me step out of the bull ring for a period of cool-down until I realised that there is no point reacting to the detractors ….. It’s what they feed on, poor sods.

My feeling is this - keep on collecting and preserving history, accept veracity, dismiss bombast, recognise that at times others can be right and we can be wrong ( and vice versa ) and have the good grace to admit it.

Good hunting fellows……..

sword1131 · 02-17-2016, 02:29 AM

I'd like to address the "good ol' days" of collecting in this hobby. I started collecting in the mid 1960's and proceeded to get burned even then. There were plenty of fakes, especially SS. Many of these fakes were produced for movies. There wasn't a good network of information then partly because WW2 was still fresh in a lot of people's minds and these items carried a bad cachet. You were collecting something like a dirty little secret.
We have come a long way since the days of printed catalogues and it is a good thing. Unfortunately this is no longer a hobby and carried on in that happy spirit but a business as well. Be careful and like has been said many, many times, buy the item not the story.

**FALLSCHIRMJAGER** · 02-17-2016, 07:25 AM

by sword1131

I'd like to address the "good ol' days" of collecting in this hobby. I started collecting in the mid 1960's and proceeded to get burned even then. There were plenty of fakes, especially SS. Many of these fakes were produced for movies. There wasn't a good network of information then partly because WW2 was still fresh in a lot of people's minds and these items carried a bad cachet. You were collecting something like a dirty little secret.
We have come a long way since the days of printed catalogues and it is a good thing. Unfortunately this is no longer a hobby and carried on in that happy spirit but a business as well. Be careful and like has been said many, many times, buy the item not the story.

Welcome to the forum sword, a very wise piece of advice for a first post! As I said earlier, the debate that has always surrounded these champagne decals is more than enough to steer me well clear of buying one. I also have no issue with fakes of anything Third Reich having been produced post 45, after all, Souval and others kept on "knocking out" awards for the "GI market" and the infamous Bacqueville awards still split opinion even though there is no period pre 1945 photographic evidence of their existence to the best of my knowledge. (no circling of wagons/defence or attack here, just my personal opinions on the subject). Leon.

**Adrian Stevenson** · 02-17-2016, 08:24 AM

Hi Guys, let us not go down the road of any personal attacks. These end up just getting threads closed and decent info coming to light. So let's be clear about this. Thank you.

What we need are good quality clear photos of this decal with a known provenance.

As Bob mentioned back in the 60's photos like we used today were unheard of. The helmet he bought may have been one of these, or it might has simply been toned. There is no vested interest here, simply anecdotal info.

So, if anyone has one of these decals they believe to be real, please show it here.

Do I think they are real? No, not on the evidence presented by Doug.

So let's stick to facts via a presentation of one of these believed to be real.

Cheers, Ade.

**RoyA** · 02-17-2016, 10:02 PM

by Adrian Stevenson

What we need are good quality clear photos of this decal with a known provenance.

There aren't any Ade. No vet names, units, histories...nothing.

**Adrian Stevenson** · 02-17-2016, 10:27 PM

Hi Roy, I doubt any will surface either, but it does not hurt to ask.

Cheers, Ade.

**popcorn** · 03-25-2016, 06:04 PM

Happy Easter everyone. I've been following this topic with interest. I registered with GWH hours ago so I could read Doug's report on his finding but am still waiting for an administrator to approve registration. So my comment may be a little premature. Form my understanding at least one of these Champagne Rune decals are in fact paint. But does that mean all of them are paint/fakes? For example, if I checked out 5 Pocher decaled helmets and found them to be fake does that indicate that all Pochers are fake and no such period example/pattern exists? Some have been direct vet purchases in the '60s/'70s so they're all fake too? Could the "tested" helmet(s) just be yet another example of a faked original?

**Wagriff** · 03-25-2016, 06:36 PM

Hence all of the heated controversy....

**ObKrieger** · 03-25-2016, 09:41 PM

Judging by the comments, I think there are many of you who haven't actually read through Doug's thread of GHW about Champagne runes. The things are spray painted on. There is hardly an identifiable pattern with lot numbers and manufacturers. The things are usually stone mint on helmets that, by all indications, should just be plain, late war M42s. Nobody can produce one with vet provenance. I'm sorry if you have one that you overpaid for, but it is what it is. Best to not be in denial about this, you know?