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No one seems to want to have any of the purportedly 100% good ones properly analyzed so understandably these unicorns also go down the drain with the rest of the now obviously fake sprayed on decal examples.
Where's the relative rhyme and reason seen, as far as I've gathered, with any other accepted SS decal variant? No unused/not applied examples of this "decal" out there as far as I know, no specific relation to maker or type of shell/period, most of the time observed in near MINT condition--- can't remember seeing any with believable wear.
There also seems to be info out there on who made these sprayed on SS insignias but it seems this is not to be revealed for some reason. Do these decals stand up to scrutiny on their own? Not as far as I have observed... the anecdotal vet crutch is sorely needed here--- obviously.
I have no "dog" in this fight either but I do not have much faith given application of sound logic and what has thus far been revealed by dissecting one of these variants, either visually with microscopes or physically with tools. The evidence seems to speak for itself.
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04-28-2016 08:00 PM
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I have been collecting for 50+ years off and on (there was about a 15 year hiatus from about 1970-1985) but I certainly had no idea what a champagne rune was until the last 10 years or so. From what I have been told, these champagne runes started to appear in the 70's. Al B. is the one who coined the term champagne runes when he noticed the similarity in the color to the champagne colored automobile paint. When these started to gain attention he pointed out to me that every one he had ever seen was painted, and not a decal, and that he first saw them in the 70's as well. For those reasons I have avoided them. Doug's analysis iced it for me, I do not believe they are real. Many if not most are on late War no decal shells. It just doesn't make sense to me that they would have gone through the pain staking process of template spray painting these insignia on to helmets when the Reich was collapsing and Pocher runic decals were so readily available. The fakers were out there seconds after the last shot was fired and it stands to reason that fakers would enhance a $15 no decal helmet to make a few extra bucks in the '70's. The addition of a runic insignia would turn a no decal piece into a $100 gem. I feel sorry for those who spent the big bucks on these, but it is what it is. We all have been burned at some point during our collecting endeavors. Just my 2 cents, which my wife often says aren't worth a penny. Jim G.
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by
helmet2id
Al B. pointed out to me that every one he had ever seen was painted, and not a decal,
Your mate Al had a keen eye back then......... and he could tell without the benefit of super high digital magnification!
" I'm putting off procrastination until next week "
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by
Snoman
4767
Alright , thanks. It falls into the no decal range so this one is part of the scam decals recently discovered.
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I have stated before that I have directly veteran purchase several of these champagne helmets over the years. All were on M-42 helmets and in pristeen condition appearing to have never issued. I got my first one back in the mid 60's. There may be fakes of these but analysis of just one helmet does not prove anything except for that one helmet. I never owned hundreds of SS helmets at one time so my opinion is blown off. I can only testify to what to what I have experienced over61 years of collecting. Those who think these were made have no idea what they are talking about. That is all I have to say on the subject.
BOB
LIFE'S LOSERS NEVER LEARN FROM THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS.
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Again, I'm not siding one way or the other....but I have to wonder-just because an artifact can be produced or reproduced by a certain process, does it necessarily follow that All such artifacts must then have been produced in this exact same manner?
William
"Much that once was, is lost. For none now live who remember it."
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Evening all, my thoughts on the "champagne" decal has always been that as there is so much argument one way or the other that for me personally I see no reason at all to think about buying one when there are many Quist, ET or Pochers out there to snap up. I fully respect Bob's experience of past vet purchases, I have often wondered if there was a small "cottage industry" somewhere in Germany selling "genuine" SS helmets using these unique decals from a "stock pile" of un-used lids to the occupational GI's post 1945, much like Steinhauer und Luck did with their awards?? Just a thought on my part. Leon.
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by
busman
Could I just ask, were these being faked as long as 40 years ago.
Yes indeed, these started to show up in the '70's. The old timers like Al B. never saw one before then. Jim G.
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by
FALLSCHIRMJAGER
Evening all, my thoughts on the "champagne" decal has always been that as there is so much argument one way or the other that for me personally I see no reason at all to think about buying one when there are many Quist, ET or Pochers out there to snap up. I fully respect Bob's experience of past vet purchases, I have often wondered if there was a small "cottage industry" somewhere in Germany selling "genuine" SS helmets using these unique decals from a "stock pile" of un-used lids to the occupational GI's post 1945, much like Steinhauer und Luck did with their awards?? Just a thought on my part. Leon.
No Leon, regrettably, the cottage industry was in the U.S. midwest. Jim G.
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i wont go into the " real / fake" discussion, as i am far from being an expert. In my humble opinion, i believe that it is an irresponsible act of arrogance to give pompous opinions - just for the sake of having given one and "being part of the play".
But i can say that whatever turns out to be the truth..
THIS IS A BEAUTIFUL & AMAZING HELMET...
Congrats to the owner !!
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