SS-Polizei Helmet?

**DougB** · 09-12-2011, 10:01 PM

by GIZMO8Z

...He could very well be wrong. However, I have worked with Jacob in the past and he has been nothing but a great human-being. He seems very knowledable and has done nothing to make me think he would intentionally give out false information.

Being a great human being does not equate to having the necessary expertise and understanding of the subject matter however. I also do not think he is intentionally giving you misinformation, he is simply himself misinformed. Painting up helmets is completely different than knowing the minutiae of what makes them authentic. I am sure he is being genuine and kind, but I believe he is wrong.
Cheers
Doug

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 09-12-2011 10:01 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**BOB COLEMAN** · 09-12-2011, 10:16 PM

by DougB

Being a great human being does not equate to having the necessary expertise and understanding of the subject matter however. I also do not think he is intentionally giving you misinformation, he is simply himself misinformed. Painting up helmets is completely different than knowing the minutiae of what makes them authentic. I am sure he is being genuine and kind, but I believe he is wrong.
Cheers
Doug

Doug-
A very valid point. In my many years of collecting, I have encountered many nice individuals who have overestimated thier knowledge and abilities. One that comes to mind was an educator who thought he could master the complicated art of Japanese sword polishing through his study of wood block prints. I saw several good swords that he made shiny and ruined beyond repair due to a lack of training and knowledge.

**GIZMO8Z** · 09-12-2011, 11:07 PM

Thanks for your responses, gentlemen. This is the exact reason I opened this thread - to encourage discussion on the matter!

I never matter of factly stated that it was 100% an SS-Polizei. I was just going from what I heard, and I must admit that I was shocked when I was told it could be an SS. I still have so much to learn...

With that being said, can anyone be certain that this was not an SS helmet based on the pictures we've seen so far?

**Sir Payne** · 09-12-2011, 11:14 PM

by GIZMO8Z

Thanks for your responses, gentlemen. This is the exact reason I opened this thread - to encourage discussion on the matter!

I never matter of factly stated that it was 100% an SS-Polizei. I was just going from what I heard, and I must admit that I was shocked when I was told it could be an SS. I still have so much to learn...

With that being said, can anyone be certain that this was not an SS helmet based on the pictures we've seen so far?

I wouldn't give up hope just yet. You should definitely have it checked out by more people. Kelly Hicks at SS Steel Inc. does authentications for SS helmets. If anybody knows, it would be him. If I were in your shoes I would do the same thing, post it on here to get people's opinions. Thanks for posting it!

**GIZMO8Z** · 09-12-2011, 11:32 PM

by cgp1066

I wouldn't give up hope just yet. You should definitely have it checked out by more people. Kelly Hicks at SS Steel Inc. does authentications for SS helmets. If anybody knows, it would be him. If I were in your shoes I would do the same thing, post it on here to get people's opinions. Thanks for posting it!

Thanks for the kind words. Even if it ends up not being an SS lid, I'm still happy to have it and I'm glad I was able to save it and remove the bogus black paint. If I hadn't, it would have been melted down as scrap at the recycling facility my family owns.

This is what it looked like when we first found it... mixed in with trash:

**Mil Spec** · 09-13-2011, 01:58 AM

The decals would have been originally placed under the vent hole. The vertical center line of the decal would have been slightly forward of the vertical center line of the vent. The photos of the decals in post #1 are in the same position as the 'as discovered' photo in post #15... and in the wrong place. Standard Polizei helmets also had 'salt shaker vents'.

For it to be a Polizei helmet, the police decal is on the side you have the typical SS-used national decal (left side, as worn). The national decal would have been on the other side (right side, as worn).

For it to be an SS-Polizei helmet, the SS decal would be on the right side, with the police decal on the left side... IIRC.

It wasn't uncommon for bikers to wear surplus helmets and to doctor them to be more 'fearsome'... perhaps with surplus, genuine decals too. These are just in the wrong place and on the wrong helmet.

**Walkwolf** · 09-13-2011, 02:35 AM

I really don't think there is anything regarding this beaded lid
to get all excited about. It is a beat up, post-war repaint
with repro decals, IMO..........

**GIZMO8Z** · 09-13-2011, 02:54 AM

by Mil Spec

The decals would have been originally placed under the vent hole. The vertical center line of the decal would have been slightly forward of the vertical center line of the vent. The photos of the decals in post #1 are in the same position as the 'as discovered' photo in post #15... and in the wrong place. Standard Polizei helmets also had 'salt shaker vents'.

For it to be a Polizei helmet, the police decal is on the side you have the typical SS-used national decal (left side, as worn). The national decal would have been on the other side (right side, as worn).

For it to be an SS-Polizei helmet, the SS decal would be on the right side, with the police decal on the left side... IIRC.

It wasn't uncommon for bikers to wear surplus helmets and to doctor them to be more 'fearsome'... perhaps with surplus, genuine decals too. These are just in the wrong place and on the wrong helmet.

Thanks for the informative post!

I see what you mean, and I understand your point.

Perhaps it's something I need to train myself to get over... but something I've been struggling with in this hobby is what most collectors and experts consider the be-all-end-all standards and norms for militaria (especially with TR items). For example, I understand that a directive declared that decals must be put on the exact location on each and every helmet... BUT... Aren't rules meant to be broken? Why can't it be possible that there was an error in production or a distracted factory worker placed decals on the wrong side/ wrong location? These things were produced under war-time conditions by human-beings after all, weren't they?

by Walkwolf

I really don't think there is anything regarding this beaded lid
to get all excited about. It is a beat up, post-war repaint
with repro decals, IMO..........

You're probably right. When I receive the helmet in the mail within the next few days I'll post pictures that will hopefully put this matter to rest.

Still, wouldn't you be a little excited and hope against all hope if you were told that a helmet of yours that you thought was once worthless may actually be an SS lid?

**Walkwolf** · 09-13-2011, 03:25 AM

[QUOTE=GIZMO8Z;359293]Aren't rules meant to be broken? Why can't it be possible that there was an error in production or a distracted factory worker placed decals on the wrong side/ wrong location? These things were produced under war-time conditions by human-beings after all, weren't they?

Noobs at the factory putting out inferior product ?
I don't think so - they'd have been shot !

I do think it was once a Luftschutz........

**Eric Zentner** · 09-13-2011, 03:29 AM

[QUOTE=Walkwolf;359308]

by GIZMO8Z

Aren't rules meant to be broken? Why can't it be possible that there was an error in production or a distracted factory worker placed decals on the wrong side/ wrong location? These things were produced under war-time conditions by human-beings after all, weren't they?

Noobs at the factory putting out inferior product ?
I don't think so - they'd have been shot !

I do think it was once a Luftschutz........

I agree with all you say Steve.

Eric