SS-Polizei Helmet?

[Mark K]

Thanks Doug I ment no disrespect by my comments it was an observation after reading many threads and posts on SS and Third Reich helmets and field gear Please correct me if I am wrong but is there not an SS data base that I have read about on the forum that can actually tie some SS helmets to there unit were they were issued by the helmets serial number I do beleive the post was on a SS Nord divishion helmet. And please one other question could you explain the use of the Pocher decal I do understand now that certain manufactuers used different variations of decals but I do not understand the use of the Pocher decal and it would appear that it is scrutinized even more than a regular SS decals or at least the combination of certain helmets and this particular type of decal.

Regards Mark k

[DougB]

Hi Mark
no disrespect taken whatsoever.
No there is no correlation between a helmets lot number (they were not serialized) and unit. You might be thinking of a feldpost (FP) number which soldiers sometimes wrote in the skirt or liner of the helmet, then you can tie a unit to the FP number and thus the helmet itself.

Pocher decals were not a manufacturer specific decal but a private purchase decal, and were the first SS decal produced by CA Pocher beginning in 1935. I believe there were also locally produced Pocher "copies", made by cottage industry printers for local Abschnitte's until Pochers were widely available. They are found on all Allgemeine, civic issue, commercial transitional and reissue SS helmets prior to 1940. They were factory used on early ET helmets, and ET that date to 1938 as factory application. Some can be found on factory SE and EF helmets as well but these are extremely rare. Pochers seem to stop being used as a standard issue decal about the time the M40 helmet appeared, with the exception of field applied decals found on SS Police helmets (reverse runic) and SS Double Runic helmets (also typically former Police helmets or standard SS double decal helmets). In fact I own an unapplied Pocher decal and collar tabs that were issued directly to the soldier for his tunic and helmet. He sold them as a group and I was fortunate pick them up. This speaks to the field application by soldiers of Pocher decals on existing helmets.

They come under scrutiny because it is easily the most replicated SS decal there is, hands down, followed by the ET decal. Because of the wide distribution on a wide variety of shells, makers and manufacturers fakers tend to slap them on damn near everything. However there was a method to the application and careful study will show when and where Pochers were used and on what.

I hope that helps

Doug

[Mark K]

Thank you Doug for taking the time to explain it to me I can now start to wrap my mind around the SS helmets and the applicaton and types of decals that were used.And further more it does make sense as you earlier stated that the rune decals were so simplistic in nature that they need to be scrutinized all the more as they would by nature be easy to duplicate.

Regards Mark K

[DougB]

Good rule of thumb when evaluating SS decals. ET for ET and ckl shells and some EF M42s, Q for Q shells. EF for EF M42 shells, NS(Champagne) for NS and SE M35s, hkp/ckl M42s and limited reissues, and CA Pochers for all transitionals, reissues prior to 1940, Allgemeine and black parade, civic SS issues. When a Pocher is found as a factory application on anything it needs to be looked at closely but they are found on SE, EF M35s as said and certain ET, early 35s and 38-39s too actually.

[Mark K]

It sounds as if identifing SS helmets and the application of the decals to certain types of Helmet shells is a science in it self .This is only an assumption but were Helmets done in runs at the factory ie...let us say for an example that Quist would make a run on Helmets for the SS they would have received an order to fill with certain helmet shell and liner sizes from the SS and then apply the decals to the helmets that were ordered.Or would they have pulled helmets from stores and applied the decals at need ?

Regards Mark K

[helmet2id]

Can we say without a doubt that the ONLY AUTHENTIC aspects of my helmet are the luftschutz blue underpaint, the repaired combat liner, and the civilian chin strap? Even the green paint is bogus?



I think the decals are real, but not SS - rather, Police decals in the reverse configuration as I stated earlier. The decal that you thought may have been SS is, in my opinion, a Police Adler that has been damaged with the removal of the paint that covered it - I see some areas of black on it. The positioning of Police decals behind the vents on beaded helmets was also done frequently, presumably to avoid the application of the decals over the bead itself, where the decals were more likely to be damaged. I will post a beaded M35 former Luftschutz helmet with Police decals applied behind the vents (albeit in the standard configuration, i.e. Adler on the left and Party Shield on the right) later today or tomorrow, and a green beaded L/S helmet that I think was repainted that color by the Danes post War which looks to be the same color as the color of your piece now. I will try to get those helmets posted asap. Jim G.

[helmet2id]

Couldn't find the box with the green one, but here is the Black M35 DD Combat Police with set back decals in the standard configuration. Reverse positioning of the decals was common, and I think that was how yours was set up. Cheers, Jim G.

[GIZMO8Z]

Very interesting! Thanks for the contribution, Jim!

[vonbrugge]

5 years late but I would like to mention the fact that the green colour seems to be used quite often on (beaded) polizei helmets. If the following pictures do not show Original helmets please correct me

francis