Crazy EK2 price!

[Glenn66]

haha! Yeah I think you're right about the frame being turned counterclockwise, I guess that leaves only the suspicion of acid ageing to say if this guy is legit or not.

You'd think that more than a few of the 300,000 prisoners taken at Stalingrad would have had EK awards and I bet the vast majority binned all items displaying military success or party affiliation in order to try and mitigate the wrath of their captors. So there must be large numbers of such items still waiting to be dug up.

As an example, one of my Stalingrad erkennungsmarken has been bent and broken in two at 90 degrees to the tag perforations, evidence to me of an owner wanting (or perhaps ordered to) dispose of military identification and deny the unit identification to the enemy.

[Glenn66]

As a footnote, the seller is also listing 5 erkennungsmarken all claimed to be Stalingrad found and I can't match any of them to units serving in Stalingrad. I know i'm not an expert on those things but you'd expect at least one to match up with a Stalingrad unit as reported on the Lexicon website.

[Wagriff]

Strangely enough,now that I mentioned it possibly happening,"another" Stalingrad seller just listed 2 more corroded out EK's. Coincidence? Actually,this seller just May be the same as the other one,but with a different name. I've noticed that more than one of these "Stalingrad Sellers" seem to have several selling identities. Just what this means,of course,is anybody's guess. It doesn't necessarily Mean something nefarious is going on-I'm sure in some cases,it's perfectly innocent...,but then again...? As Alice said, "Curiouser and curiouser..." William

[Walkwolf]

$50 or less is what I'd be willing to pay for one of these.

Anyone who would pay upwards of $300 is nuts.......!

[Glenn66]

I've noticed that more than one of these "Stalingrad Sellers" seem to have several selling identities.

True, a couple of weeks ago I was emailed a photo of a belt buckle from one seller, then another seller emailed me the same photo! I asked what was going on and seller #1 says "oh yes I know that guy he's a friend and he asked me to try to sell his buckle for him" Really? I don't think so! Especially when seller #2's email was in German and referred to a customer called Bob or Rob or something, I think he mixed up his email addresses

[Glenn66]

This whole topic of acid ageing EK's has got me thinking...WHY is it being done, if at all?

I mean, if the medal is genuine and ground dug, then fine..it's worth something. If it's genuine and acid aged then to me it's worth less so why bother? It only makes sense to me to artificially age the medal if it's a fake and the ageing is an attempt to disguise the fact.

Below are two EK's (1 and 2) that are now up for auction, the seller is Moscow based. (at least thats where he posts stuff from) I've bought a couple of things from him and so far he seems legit. What I see with both these EK's is the iron core corrosion has swelled up to the level of the frame. Now from what Klinger has said this is indicative of acid ageing but I wonder, is it really?

I'd like to hear from someone with an expert opinion on iron corrosion. Might 65 years in moist conditions cause corrosion like this? I expect that being buried in shallow soil would result in more moisture compared to being buried at the bottom of a bunker or trench. That being said I would also imagine natural corrosion in dry compared to moist conditions would affect the corrosion process and result in bubbling rust, flaky rust or swelling rust etc.

Or do we just say that swelling rust like the below is only due to acid?





Glenn

[Wagriff]

Personally,I'm tending to lean towards the "legit" on these EK's,but I have to say also,that this particular seller,while he started Out as 100% honest,now he seems to occasionally mix in items that Really set off my radar. Take a look,for example,on the "silver death head ring" that he also listed at the same time as these 2 EK's. Is this thing for Real? It looks like a piece of Biker bling....It's just stuff like this that has been making me start to avoid this guy. While he Does still have Alot of genuine Stalingrad dug pieces always for sale,Why does he have to start adding These sorts of things,I wonder? I know that silver German military rings always go over $100 bucks and are good guaranteed sellers -especially when from a good storied location,but is that the only reason he does this? For the quick buck? Do rotten apples Always taint the entire barrel? Personally,I just don't know.... William

[tampalam]

I see some very convincing evidence of acid aging on the first cross shown here in this topic. It looks very different from the normal rusting you would see from ground dug items. Our friends in Russia have posted a few legit ones with photos taken on site at the dig which have a very dirfferent appearance. After a while, when you handle items that you know came frm the ground, you can begin to see the differences in artificial aging an what time and the elements do to metal and other materials. It is just like getting to know a one-looker decal on a helmet. You need to have as may in-hand experiences as possible until your senses are trained to spot the real thing from the fakes. I am not saying that the cross is fake, just that the aging is "forced".

[Adrian]

It adds a whole new dimension to collecting when instead of trying to figure out if a medal is genuine you then have to figure out if the rust is genuine!

[Glenn66]

Ahh Jeez, fake rust? So now we need electron microscopes, chemical analysis and forensic metalurgical testing to determine the authenticity of RUST?

I wonder if the trusty old smell test might easily spot an acid aged piece? Does anyone know if the acid leaves behind any telltale smell? Like maybe an old car battery smell?

By the way, another EK1 has surfaced on ebay and wouldn't you know it, it's 'Stalingrad dug' also and has an amazing resemblence to the rust on the recent rash of 'Stalingrad' EK's. I've bought off this guy before..well I tried to buy...I won the auction on an EK2 and Verwundetenabzeichen im Schwarz and lo and behold, he 'lost' them both after the sale closed. I think he didn't like the price they got so I think this guy is not particularly ethical.



PS does anyone else wonder why every piece of relic German militaria on ebay is from Stalingrad? Try searching using 'German Kharkov' or 'German Leningrad' or 'German Kursk' and theres next to no matches... curious isn't it?

Glenn