Für raub und morder - 1941

[Gew44]

I found this cross and I would love lissen your opinion about this one.
This is made by Russian Army and is a propaganda cross anti-German soldier.
The inscription "Für raub und morder" ( For robbery and murder) and date 1941 is the year that Germany invaded the Soviet Union..
These cross where made in both First and Second class form, on single-piece construction rather than multi-piece.
Somebody have seen other of same caracteristic or have lissend about this crosses?

[Adrian]

Hi Massimo,
These crosses have been the subject of debate on many forums. The general opinion is that these are fantasy pieces. I don't believe there is any evidence of these being wartime produced or being used in the way that is claimed.

[Woolgar]

It features in Gordon Williamsons book 'The Iron Cross of 1939'
and he states that only a handful were ever made but I tend to agree they are a fantasy piece. I think the Russians had more on their mind in 1941 that making EKs !

Nick

[Adrian]

It features in Gordon Williamsons book 'The Iron Cross of 1939'

There is indeed, and this has been the subject of debate too. Again, the consensus is that the example there is also of this fake type.

[cricketchris1944]

Never seen period pictures of them ,they are suppose to be propaganda items but never seen them on any info from the period.SO fake.

[Gew44]

Thanks a lot for reply, also for me they are a fake crosses but one more opinion from other collectors is important for me.
Honestly I copied few lines from the Gordon Williamson book to create a debate, not started for your expert answers.
Sorry for this little "bad thought post"

[Snni]

I don't want it for my collection!!

[Adrian]

Thanks a lot for reply, also for me they are a fake crosses but one more opinion from other collectors is important for me.
Honestly I copied few lines from the Gordon Williamson book to create a debate, not started for your expert answers.
Sorry for this little "bad thought post"

Not a 'bad thought post' at all Massimo. These crosses are worthy of a debate so we can all learn from it. If someone does some research here before spending any money on one then it has served it's purpose.
It's also open to anyone who has reason to think these are genuine crosses and can offer something to the debate........?

[Badto666]

I red somewhere (don´t remember where ) that they where made in the end of the war and dropped from the air to the solider to help them keeping up the faith until the end...That they where made in only one peace also and not close to the details of the original ek2´s. That is probably a fairytale I guess and they are probably fakes.

[Dimas]

Here some time ago I've posted one https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/order...on-crosses-20/
First time I 've seen it was a earlly 90's. One still exists in the Russian FSB archives, but surely there no way to enter the archives.