real or fake? Ritterkreuz.. please help!

**Woolgar** · 08-17-2012, 08:11 AM

Adrian, I thought some genuine RK's did have a dipping ring

Nick

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 08-17-2012 08:11 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Adrian** · 08-17-2012, 08:18 AM

by Woolgar

Adrian, I thought some genuine RK's did have a dipping ring

Nick

You're right Nick, there is evidence that some originals did but more fakes abound with the dipping ring than originals. In the context of a newcomer and this particular cross it is safer to say that dipping ring crosses are most likely to be fake. I personally wouldn't be happy with one and would prefer a solid original than one that has a question mark above it.

If anyone can post an image of a genuine dipping ring cross then please do. Either the award or one in wear.

**daviswr7** · 08-17-2012, 08:22 AM

Thank you for the advice and information you guys, I really appreciate it. price quoted is thousand bucks or best offer?? WAY to low to be the real deal I know. I had the guy on the phone earlier and he had no information whatsoever on it except his dad gave it to him 30 years ago...anymore information is defiantly welcome and thanks again, u guys rock!

**Wagriff** · 08-17-2012, 08:23 AM

If a person is going to invest the kind of money it takes to purchase an RK, in my book, it had better be a one-looker. How many people, for example, in the 80's spent frightening amounts of money and bought those crude ugly "jewelers copies" or "wearing copies"? Money down the drain for nothing-except grinning seller's faces. Thankfully, you seldom see such trash anymore.

**Paul D** · 08-17-2012, 08:36 AM

by daviswr7

Thank you for the advice and information you guys, I really appreciate it. price quoted is thousand bucks or best offer?? WAY to low to be the real deal I know. I had the guy on the phone earlier and he had no information whatsoever on it except his dad gave it to him 30 years ago...anymore information is defiantly welcome and thanks again, u guys rock!

The price tells all , it is worth 6 or 7 times that if real and these days even if you know nothing about them a quick internet search will reveal the price so why would someone give it away !!

**daviswr7** · 08-17-2012, 08:39 AM

I completley agree! He says it's just been sitting in a box and has never researched it or anything, but your right, to good to be true most likely. I just thought I would throw it up here and let you guys take a whack at it...thanks

**Redcap** · 08-17-2012, 08:53 AM

The piece that started this thread is a postwar Souval. The shape of the eye, the fact that the 800 silver mark is on the obverse rather than reverse frame and ( although not terribly clear on the images) the bottom of the numeral 3 in 1939 is just fractionally lower than the other numerals are all traits of Souvals postwar produced pieces.

Although not really possible to see on a face-on pic, most probably you'd find that the level of the swastika is well below the level of the ribbed inner edge of the frame, the low swastika being another Souval trait.

**daviswr7** · 08-17-2012, 07:21 PM

So I guess I'll end with this question to you folks. Is there any value or collectability here at all? Or is this basically just worth its weight in scrap because its a reproduction. And lastly, is it a faux pas of some sort to collect these Souval pieces? or was this merely a way to rip off collectors who were looking for authentic memorobilia back in the day? Thanks again for all your help, you've been great.

**Adrian** · 08-17-2012, 07:32 PM

by daviswr7

So I guess I'll end with this question to you folks. Is there any value or collectability here at all? Or is this basically just worth its weight in scrap because its a reproduction. And lastly, is it a faux pas of some sort to collect these Souval pieces? or was this merely a way to rip off collectors who were looking for authentic memorobilia back in the day? Thanks again for all your help, you've been great.

I'll try and answer your questions in order and from my perspective.

It might have some value to a re-enactor or someone who wants a space filler in lieu of a genuine RK.

To others, it is just worth it's weight in scrap.

Souval pieces are collectible but as Souval made awards after the end of the war, (being Austrian, the rules over the swastika didn't apply as it did in Germany) using the same techniques for a period of time there is always the 'is it/isn't it'? question hanging over alot of their products. I have Souval pieces in my collection.

Undoubtedly over time, Souval pieces were/are used to rip off collectors back in the day and even today!

**Wagriff** · 08-17-2012, 07:36 PM

In My eyes, it's just a piece of costume jewelry. Basically worthless as far as collectability. It was never awarded for any act of honor or bravery, and it was never official Anything.