Ritterkreuz des eisernen kreuzes, another fake??

**Viriathus** · 08-03-2014, 07:49 AM

Hello everybody!

This is the second thread I'm posting regarding a Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes, first was said to be fake, in the meantime I saw the below one offered at auction as "genuine". It is an unmarked example and obviously needs a good cleaning. I would much appreciate the expertise of the forum members concerning its authenticity. Is this good or just another fake?

Many thanks in advance and very best regards,

Jose

P.S. The auctioneer states the core is lacquered zinc and the suspension wire is a later addition. Unfortunately these are the only photos on display for the lot.

Ritterkreuz des eisernen kreuzes, another fake??

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 08-03-2014 07:49 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Wagriff** · 08-03-2014, 08:45 AM

Sorry....another dud. A Knight's Cross should always have a magnetic iron core. If not, it could, at the very best, be a Jeweler made piece for a Wearing copy, but I very much doubt it in this case. The quality is just not there. This award was the Highest award a person could receive in Nazi era Germany. Even a jewelers made wearing copy exhibits quite high quality and work.

**Viriathus** · 08-03-2014, 09:22 AM

by Wagriff

Sorry....another dud. A Knight's Cross should always have a magnetic iron core. If not, it could, at the very best, be a Jeweler made piece for a Wearing copy, but I very much doubt it in this case. The quality is just not there. This award was the Highest award a person could receive in Nazi era Germany. Even a jewelers made wearing copy exhibits quite high quality and work.

Hello Wagriff,

Thank you for your post, I agree it seem to be a lower quality example, but the the pics are quite bad... You are probably right and it's nothing but a fake, nevertheless there are some reported "zinc cored" examples, I found another Knight's Cross with "non-magnetic" core (so it's not iron) at emedals.com, and some references on the subject as the following: "Knight’s Cross is similar in appearance to the Iron Cross of the 1st Class. The only difference is that the Knight’s Cross is bigger and was worn around the neck on a ribbon, which was in the colors of the Reich, therefore, black-white-red. The frame in which the iron core was embedded was made from silver. The first designs had a zinc core." (military-awards.eu)...

**Wagriff** · 08-03-2014, 09:44 AM

Hello Variathus! Digging in my reference materials, I see that the Ritters were, indeed, made with other core materials, such as zinc and even Copper. However, these very Extremely early issues of the RK, and to run into such a thing is more of a phenomenon than a likely occurrence. These were the small handful in number made before the very strict regulations and controls were put into place for production. No one I know-including myself-would ever accept a zinc core Knight's Cross as genuine unless it had bullet proof provenance and then some. The only such that I know of are known as display copies, Jewelers copies and field medals. And, even so, the one pictured here is of very low quality in any case.
I have no idea who did the write up you quoted, but the Knight's Cross is very much differently made than the 1st class! For the guy who wrote that to have made such a statement makes a person question him, for sure. And, as for Barry Turk over at emedals, he's a very knowledgeable guy and I've always had fine service doing business with him, but he has been known to make questionable statements on various pieces of his inventory. He does, however, have the most Pour le Merite's in one place that I have ever seen!

**Nick Hessens** · 08-03-2014, 01:09 PM

Where do you read 'genuine'?

The frames look very similar to a post war 57er "D"- frame RK from S&L, but either way definately not a good one! And again for the price the auctioneer is asking you will not find an original.....

I suggest if you're looking for such high end award, you buy some good books on the subject. The Knights Cross of the Iron Cross by Dietrich Maerz for example.

Regards

**Viriathus** · 08-03-2014, 02:47 PM

by Nick Hessens

Where do you read 'genuine'?

The frames look very similar to a post war 57er "D"- frame RK from S&L, but either way definately not a good one! And again for the price the auctioneer is asking you will not find an original.....

I suggest if you're looking for such high end award, you buy some good books on the subject first. The Knights Cross of the Iron Cross by Dietrich Maerz for example.

Regards

Hi Nick,

Thank you for your comments on the authenticity on this Rittetkreuz!

Well, this time I have directly contacted the auctioneer, who assured me its authenticity. Even though the price was affordable for a genuine item, because of its poor condition I thought, it was quite expensive for a replica! This is why I had some hopes regarding it. The first Cross would cost 500 eur, but they would sell the latest for 1850! This makes 2500 usd!

Thank you again very much, any other opinions by the forum members will be welcome.

Very best regards,

Jose

**Nick Hessens** · 08-03-2014, 03:29 PM

An expensive copy, but far from an original. I'm not up on the various prices, but I think if you look really good and know your sources you can pick up a genuine K&Q RK for around €6500? Personally haven't seen anything less than this.

A different route would be the 57er RK, like many TR collectors do....

Regards