Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes post-war? Souval?

[HARRY THE MOLE]

To my knowledge, there were only Juncker & Godet who produced some (but not all) Ritterkreuz without the silver content marked on the frame - also the suspension loop on some Juncker examples had no markings either. Godet suspension loops were marked 21/800.

I still think that the swastika looks as thought it is below the raised ribbed portion of the frame, and if this is the case, then the odds are stacked against it being genuine. Run the straight edge of a ruler over the top of the swastika and rest it on the frame, then look to see if there is a gap. Was it a private purchase or from a dealer?

My knowledge is limited to the basics on these awards, so wait and see what someone else might say before reaching any conclusions.

Cheers,
steve

[DaVinci]

Hi Steve, was that it?

[rbminis]

Hi Steve, was that it?

Is there a gap between the ruler and the swastika?
Ralph.

[AZPhil]

I think that Steve is saying that the Swazi sits up higher than the ribs of the frame. As in it sticks out further than the rib's. Not higher up in the frame.
I thought he meant higher up on the cross until I read what he is asking for.

I don't have one so can't comment on if it's good or bad.

Semper Fi
Phil

[HARRY THE MOLE]

I was thinking more like this... please note that there is NO gap between the top of the beading and the top of the swastika. If the top of the swastika is lower than the beading, it is likely to be a fake. A genuine Ritterkreuz almost always has the top of the swastika level with the top of the beading... not below it - and certainly not above it either.




Cheers,
Steve

[DaVinci]

there is no gap

[HARRY THE MOLE]

Well that rules out that theory. Your original question was whether it was a post war Souval. Well according to my research, they always stamped the frame with the silver content... and yours does not have a stamp on the frame. Although not to be relied upon - as there are many con merchants about - the price paid can also be an indicator of whether the seller believed it (or otherwise) to be genuine. If it is considerably below the market value of some several thousands, it is unlikely to be a genuine 1939 wartime example Ritterkreuz. There is plenty of information and photographs on the internet, and you are able to hold your example in hand and compare to high resolution photographs of originals. For me, your example looks slightly less well finished and defined in detail to originals. But that is only my opinion, and I could be totally wrong.

Cheers,
Steve

[DaVinci]

Thanks Steave for help. I bought the cross from a collector who does not collect military items but coins, I know that the cross came from Germany many years ago. I also ask other users for opinions. Thanks!!!

[AZPhil]

In post 16 there is a gap between the ribs and the sawzi. They are not level with each other. So fake?


Am I missing something here or did I not understand what you meant Steve?

Just trying to learn something and not make mistakes when seeing a real one.

Semper Fi
Phil

[HARRY THE MOLE]

To be honest Phil, I thought that I saw a gap too. But I do not have the cross in hand, whereas DaVinci does. The measurement is taken with the ruler edge resting on the top of the ribbed frame, running across the top flat surface of the swastika, and back on to the top of the ribbed frame. You should not be able to see daylight between the edge of the ruler and the top flat of the swastika.

I really hope that DaVinci has dropped lucky and got himself a genuine Ritterkreuz But I would suspect that a coin dealer - whether he collects militaria or not - would know the market value of a Ritterkreuz. Coin dealers usually deal in medals too. Even a 57er de-nazified version with iron core will set you back about 900 euros or more, and a 57er sold on eBay Germany last week for over 300 euros... and that had terrible condition issues with split and buckled frame which had been very badly re-soldered. Even my field converted EK11 should have been over £700, and it was only after some serious negotiating that I got it for a more affordable price... see the link here.

Eisernes Kreuz 2. Klasse - field modified

Cheers,
Steve