Ritterkreuz, Eichenlaub, Schwertern und Brillanten & Pour Le Merite...

**BOB COLEMAN** · 05-20-2012, 05:06 AM

by Dean

Thanks David!
Yeah, about the medals, I'd feel safe to say they are rea, as my G-Uncle was HJ and got this stuff from Germany after the war. I would love to get individual pics but these are all cased on a Veryyy tall wall and I will use a ladder next time I'm there. I dont think he'll allow me to open the cases though.

Dean-
Fakes were prevelant in Europe before they got to North America. If he was not a student of what he was collecting, it would be very easy to be taken in. Thins have not changed very much over the past 50 years unfortunately. There was a famous costumer in Munich named Breuer who turned out tons of fake uniforms and hats in the 60's. They are now 50 years old. Frankly, the general officer schirmutze you posted is quite questionable. The sweat diamond appears to be pliable.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 05-20-2012 05:06 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Dean** · 05-20-2012, 05:08 AM

I understand, Bob. I will ask him if I can look closer next time we talk. He has some great stuff but after finding out about the pennants, I know there is room for fakes. He wants to sell off his collection so I told him this would be a good place to I.D. them first then sell. I'm glad I have experts like you guys so nobody gets the shaft. He didnt want to sell the pennants so thats not an issue.

**Dean** · 05-20-2012, 05:10 AM

by BOB COLEMAN

Dean-
Fakes were prevelant in Europe before they got to North America. If he was not a student of what he was collecting, it would be very easy to be taken in. Thins have not changed very much over the past 50 years unfortunately. There was a famous costumer in Munich named Breuer who turned out tons of fake uniforms and hats in the 60's. They are now 50 years old. Frankly, the general officer schirmutze you posted is quite questionable. The sweat diamond appears to be pliable.

I see, I also agree the cap questionable but I believe the tunic and Mantel to be period.

**BOB COLEMAN** · 05-20-2012, 05:13 AM

Dean-
If he wants to sell the medals, it will be necessary to take them out of the frames and photograph each one in detail. When I hear a KC with diamonds, my first reaction is that of a skeptic. I hope for his sake they are all good. Even today, people collect items for what they purport to be. That is not necessarily always the case that they are.

**SteveR** · 05-20-2012, 05:23 AM

The sad thing today with older collections coming on the market is that trusting collectors that purchased fake things long ago are now finding they were defrauded decades ago. A bitter pill to swallow. Even more so for heirs of items that were told that these things were vaulable and would be a legacy.

**Dean** · 05-20-2012, 05:24 AM

Understood, But he said he doesnt want to sell the medals yet. He wanted to sell a few items through me, then if that goes okay thenhe will pull some other stuff out. My uncle said Mr. R just pulled the General uniform out of the closet and he'd never seen it after he lived there for 25 years!He lives there and didnt know he had it. Mr. R gave my Uncle a nice P38 the other day too.I'll try to find the image of it.

**Adrian** · 05-20-2012, 05:42 AM

That is an impressive collection but the question which has been posed already is: are they all genuine? My first reaction is the same as Bob's. Diamond encrusted EKs always raise an eyebrow, Grosskreuz the same, many high end pieces together like this always will be treated with a certain amount of scepticism.
Sorry to put a dampener on your thread but there is no way we can make any objective comments based upon these photos. For example, we could all go out and buy a shed load of fakes for little money, photograph them from a distance and who would be the wiser?
Unless they can all be authenticated by someone who knows what they're talking about, someone might be very disappointed somewhere down the line...........

**Wagriff** · 05-20-2012, 05:42 AM

I'm sorry to say, Dean, but the Pour Le Merite with Oak leaves is almost certainly not good. The leaves, for one, are even from the photo, not looking right. As for the 2 Ritters with Diamonds, I would very much need to see macro closeups of each with both sides, but I am not feeling good about them-especially the one that I can see beneath the PLM. As Bob said earlier, a Ritter with Diamonds trips off alarm bells- they are almost unobtainable for any price and when one sees Two of them, and they are as oddly shiny and glitzy as the one that I can see, I definitely would not like to bet serious money on it being genuine. I searched for Years for one, I know, and never Did find a correct piece.

**Adrian** · 05-20-2012, 05:48 AM

In the first photo, the oakleaves and swords attached to the RK, the swords are two different lengths and I'm sure this isn't anything to do with the angle of the photo - red flag!
In the second photo, what is the award at the top? It looks like a 1914 EK1 but it looks questionable from this photo alone.

**Wagriff** · 05-20-2012, 05:52 AM

I'd also like to see good macros of the Grand Cross and the Blood Order.. My first thought was that a collector had used the pieces for fillers until if and when a proper piece could be found, but to say that the collection had been appraised for 250K years ago, again, more alarm bells. Who did this appraisal?