RK for rewiev, good or bad

[Miro]

A small dose of education. You need S&L oaks with vein flaw ("pimple" in yellow circle on the right). And first leaf flaw (hairline crack in the yellow circle on the left). The second leaf flaw, another hairline crack, developed later and shouldn´t be on early piece. It´s position would be somewhere in the area of red circle.

[Paul D]

I disagree. If we consider post ww1 1914ers as genuine and collectable pieces, we must do the same with post ww2 1939ers. Post war KMSTs or Hansen screwbacks are considered highly valuable. Why we draw so strict line on 1945 year? What ended that time? History? Surely not.

Speaking with Imperial language, this is not original awarded cross, ok - but it is nice private purchase piece. Congrats to it.

This argument has been put forward many times and does to a certain point have merit especially when post war pieces were being produced from the Original dies for Souvenir hunters / veterans etc . Unfortunately for this theory the History of the Third Reich period did end in May 1945 and everything manufactured after that is post war , history didn't stop but the Third Reich did. Many arguments have been put forward as to why post war manufactured pieces should be classified as original but the crux of the matter is that the collecting world doesn't accept that ,as only pieces manufactured prior to May 1945 are accepted as genuine Third Reich made and the price and desirablity of a RK made prior to May 1945 reflects that.

Marc you have a very nice RK for your collection that i'm sure you are happy with and hopefully at some point in the future you will own a Wartime period one but Harry in his usual succinct way is correct with his asertion,

regards

Paul

[unimarc]

Thanks a lot guys, for all your detailed and informative answers . They are highly appriciated :-)
I will start hunting for the right kind of oak leaves !
And Paul, I tend to lean towards what you are saying . I am very happy for my RK, and I am pretty sure I will not be able to pay for a pre 45 one, unless I will be lucky like with this one ;-)
Once again thanks for your interest and advices :-)
Mfg
Marc

[TrondK]

The difference in some collectors point of view must be: A pre mai 1945 RK is only given to a special soldier for a very good reason. Post mai 1945 produced medals is given to any GI Joe with some money to spend on ww2 trinkets when on leave.

Its like the post 45 pieces is missing that magical touch of military history. They are just a piece of metal in the shape of a famous decoration.

Or am i totally wrong here?!

[Paul D]

Thanks a lot guys, for all your detailed and informative answers . They are highly appriciated :-)
I will start hunting for the right kind of oak leaves !
And Paul, I tend to lean towards what you are saying . I am very happy for my RK, and I am pretty sure I will not be able to pay for a pre 45 one, unless I will be lucky like with this one ;-)
Once again thanks for your interest and advices :-)
Mfg
Marc

I had to wait about 10 years Marc before the right RK came along Marc but it was worth the wait !!

[Miro]

This argument has been put forward many times and does to a certain point have merit especially when post war pieces were being produced from the Original dies for Souvenir hunters / veterans etc . Unfortunately for this theory the History of the Third Reich period did end in May 1945 and everything manufactured after that is post war , history didn't stop but the Third Reich did. Many arguments have been put forward as to why post war manufactured pieces should be classified as original but the crux of the matter is that the collecting world doesn't accept that ,as only pieces manufactured prior to May 1945 are accepted as genuine Third Reich made and the price and desirablity of a RK made prior to May 1945 reflects that.

Marc you have a very nice RK for your collection that i'm sure you are happy with and hopefully at some point in the future you will own a Wartime period one but Harry in his usual succinct way is correct with his asertion,

regards

Paul

I mostly answered these arguments. The end of TR era has no value as an argument in this debate. In May, Third Reich ended, but two other important things didn´t - recipients and producers. The role of TR era, doesn´t matter who represented it, was accomplished in the moment of awarding the cross to recipient. From this moment, it was only about relation between recipient and producer. The proof of it is in ww1 example - In November 1918 German Imperial Reich ended. Kaiser Wilhelm abdicated. Second Reich era was over. But the EK 1914 continued to be produced, as well as being awarded!!! (until 1924). The postwar private purchased pieces belong to the most beautiful and valuable EKs on collectors market. Of course, Imperial collectors still continue to differ between awarded and privately purchased pieces, but these later are not considered as plague.
Maybe I am too influenced by Imperial terminology, but in this area, cross is considered as "original" when it is awarded piece. Any privately purchased piece, and it doesn´t matter if it was purchased wartime or postwar, is considered as wearer´s copy. From this point of view, any S&L RK that was privately purchased by veteran as a Zweitstuck, or replacement, should be considered as copy, and it doesn´t matter if it was purchased wartime or postwar.

[Miro]

The difference in some collectors point of view must be: A pre mai 1945 RK is only given to a special soldier for a very good reason. Post mai 1945 produced medals is given to any GI Joe with some money to spend on ww2 trinkets when on leave.

Its like the post 45 pieces is missing that magical touch of military history. They are just a piece of metal in the shape of a famous decoration.

Or am i totally wrong here?!

In fact, if you know the history, it is opposite. Many of wartime award pieces were in possession of original recipients only for short period of time and then they were taken by GI Joes as a part of "surrender contract". From this reason, many postwar pieces made as a replacements, were worn by veterans longer than their original award pieces, so in fact there is some "magical touch" on them as well.

Btw, can you tell me what magical touch of history is on russian or deschler hoard pieces, that were not awarded to anyone, but still they are highly valuable? They never saw a battle - but they are mint!!! That´s the real "magical touch" many TR collectors are hunting for.

[unimarc]

I mostly answered these arguments. The end of TR era has no value as an argument in this debate. In May, Third Reich ended, but two other important things didn´t - recipients and producers. The role of TR era, doesn´t matter who represented it, was accomplished in the moment of awarding the cross to recipient. From this moment, it was only about relation between recipient and producer. The proof of it is in ww1 example - In November 1918 German Imperial Reich ended. Kaiser Wilhelm abdicated. Second Reich era was over. But the EK 1914 continued to be produced, as well as being awarded!!! (until 1924). The postwar private purchased pieces belong to the most beautiful and valuable EKs on collectors market. Of course, Imperial collectors still continue to differ between awarded and privately purchased pieces, but these later are not considered as plague. Maybe I am too influenced by Imperial terminology, but in this area, cross is considered as "original" when it is awarded piece. Any privately purchased piece, and it doesn´t matter if it was purchased wartime or postwar, is considered as wearer´s copy. From this point of view, any S&L RK that was privately purchased by veteran as a Zweitstuck, or replacement, should be considered as copy, and it doesn´t matter if it was purchased wartime or postwar.

It is a tough question ! And strange that ww1 and ww2 doesn't play by the same "rules".
Personally I don't see these post war awards as copies when made by original makers, but despite the fact you point out about time of wear, I think there are some strange magic about the pre 45 awarded pieces . Can't explain exactly what it is :-/
Mfg
Marc