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04-08-2010 10:11 PM
# ADS
Circuit advertisement
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Re: Ubergrosse, standard and Schinkel EK2s for reference.
Great info Adrian, thanks
Which makers produced the Ubergrosse and why ?
Nick
"In all my years as a soldier, I have never seen men fight so hard." - SS Obergruppenfuhrer Wilhelm Bittrich - Arnhem
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Re: Ubergrosse, standard and Schinkel EK2s for reference.
Hi Nick,
As far as I am aware, no one knows for certain who made the übergroße, although some examples have turned up in packets marked Frank & Reif of Stuttgart. As to whether they originally came packed as such, we cannot be certain.
There is a theory that they were originally produced as 'prototypes' of the new Ritterkreuz (which measures 48 x 48mm), and in Gordon Williamson's 'The Iron Cross of 1939', he mentions that a picture of one appears in a period Winterhilfswerke 'Kampf im Osten' booklet with the caption 'das neue Ritterkreuz'. (I have not seen this myself, and am searching for a copy at the moment).
What ever the reason they were produced for, the fact is that they ended up being added to existing stocks of EK2's and were distributed as such. It is only us collectors who place such importance on their size difference.
Hopefully Adrian will have some more information on the subject.
Regards - Danny
Last edited by Danny70; 04-09-2010 at 01:41 PM.
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Re: Ubergrosse, standard and Schinkel EK2s for reference.
Hi Danny,
My apologys, there is a typo on my photo, the correct measurements for the Ubergrosse I show are: 46.86 x 46.96mm meaning the Ubergrosse should measure 47 x 47mm to the nearest mm. I'll edit the photo and repost it to avoid confusion.
You are correct in saying there are two different sizes for these crosses, the type we have both shown and also the 'baby' or 'little brother' Ubergrosse. This is in fact no different to the normal type in terms of manufacture but the 'baby' crosses have had the edges of the frame filed down to bring it more into line with a standard EK2. Therefore we find a normal looking Ubergrosse with regard to the core and beading, just with very thin flanges on the frame. I don't unfortunately own one of these, still on my shopping list, but I'll see if I can dig a photo up from somewhere.
The reason anyone produced these crosses is still a suject of debate. As Danny has mentioned, possibly a prototype for a Ritterkreuz, I've also heard mentioned they were to represent a Ritterkreuz on a medalbar. Whatever the reason, it is likely we will never know but at least it gives us collectors something to talk about!
Looking for LDO marked EK2s and items relating to U-406.....
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Re: Ubergrosse, standard and Schinkel EK2s for reference.
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Danny70
I don't have a 'little brother' either, but almost had....
I had purchased one as a regular unmarked EK2 a few years ago, paid for it and everything, but someone alerted the seller at the last minute and suddenly the price was quadrupled... and then some!. I couldn't afford it at the time so accepted my refund.
I can't say I blame the seller though.
Someday maybe.
Regards - Danny
Ouch! you mst have been gutted, I know I would've been!
Out of curiosity Danny, what did the price go up to? I'm not sure what others would accept as being a reasonable price for one of these but I wouldn't pay any more than I would for a full sized Ubergrosse.
Looking for LDO marked EK2s and items relating to U-406.....
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Re: Ubergrosse, standard and Schinkel EK2s for reference.
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AdrianC
....Out of curiosity Danny, what did the price go up to? I'm not sure what others would accept as being a reasonable price for one of these but I wouldn't pay any more than I would for a full sized Ubergrosse.
Adrian,
To be honest, it's about 4 years back and I can't remember exactly, but I do remember that he had claimed a regular übergroße cost about €700, which I knew was BS, so I declined. Although, to be fair, I don't think he was asking €700 for the 'little brother'.
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