A very interesting (and rare) Wiederholungsspange 1939 für das Eiserne Kreuz I. Klasse 1914!

[Adrian]

A middle period Floch Spange???? Fabri, I can feel blood pressure rising in Norway.......0

[fabri]

ahahaah noooo, why ? I have a Floch and it 's very different, material and back set up..

[KSH]

ahahaah noooo, why ? I have a Floch and it 's very different, material and back set up..

Just to have something to discuss Fabrizio: How do you know that it is a Floch? Is it out of the same die? I believe perhaps there are many fakes out there mislabeled "Floch". Have anyone studied the "Flochs" systematically?

Can you post your Floch here Fabrizio?

- Kenneth

[fabri]

Here they are GCA Forum | Access denied. ....... still at home !!!

[KSH]

Here they are GCA Forum | Access denied. ....... still at home !!!

Fabrizio, not one single person refers to these Spangen as Flochs in this thread, rather they are called "raptor fakes" here. They are different from the Flochs. My point illustrated. All fakes can't be Flochs.

- Kenneth

[fabri]

ah ok I didn't remember if Floch or another one. Honestly I remember better the originals.

[KSH]

ah ok I didn't remember if Floch or another one. Honestly I remember better the originals.

The originals are what's really important my friend! I'm just saying it's very unfortunate if "Floch" becomes a universal term for all kinds of fakes, because this simply cannot be accurate.

- Kenneth

[history-buff1944]

Hi guys,

I have just received this amazing Spange, which is an early rare EKI-Spange in Buntmetall made by an unknown maker which based on GCA-research was probably based in the Lüdenscheid area. Its reverse setup is a 100% accurate match to Spangen made by Deumer.

The "experts" on "The Lord of the Flies forum" deemed this Spange a "Floch with a reworked head"! Which it isn't even close to being.

This exact Spange will be featured in the upcoming EKI-book by Frank Thater to be ready later this year, where it will be featured as an original early Spange by an unknown maker. Frank Thater has handled this very Spange himself.

The Spange has clear shear marks, a finish 100% consistent with wartime pieces and has a 100% wartime reverse setup. This Spange is manufacture-wise not even related to the Floch-fake in any way. Obviously it is related in design to the original Spange that Floch probably based his reproduction on. It also is related to another early Spange that has surfaced not long ago.

The problem on the "The Lord of the Flies forum" is that they deem everything they don't like or understand as a Floch. Period. I call it Flochinitis. It is this kind of ridiculous behavior on this certain forum that has made myself and very many others to completely stay away from it and just leave them to revel in their own poison.

These are harsh words, however well deserved. One of the reasons I decided to buy this one was spite I have to admit!

Let's now just enjoy this Spange instead!

Attachment 222290
Attachment 222291

- Kenneth

I had the same kind of problem with them there which is why I quit that site almost 10 years ago. The last straw was all the """"""EXPERTS"""""""" saying a near mint pair of Generals Collar Tabs I owned were fakes because they didnt show red in the center. I noticed how interesting it was that of the 5 people that said it was bad, that no less than 4 of them contacted me privately wanting to buy them-one even said he bid $200.00. If they were fakes? why bid so much? Weird.

However, I knew all along they were trying to give me the royal shaft and thought that they could nab a great pair of tabs for 1/4 or so of the original value. Also, I knew it was real as these were a spare pair that came with a Generals estate that a friend of mind bought directly from his family back about 2000. Anyway, by the time my tabs had been posted and discussed about on that site, and I even had 4-5 rank insignia collectors on my side on this, I had seen numerous photos of Generals wearing collar tabs exactly like mine. One of the nay sayers said that mine couldnt be real only because he had never seen a pair of collar tabs without the red showing.

Anyway, glad you stuck to your guns on your instinct instead of listening to non expert "experts."

[KSH]

I had the same kind of problem with them there which is why I quit that site almost 10 years ago. The last straw was all the """"""EXPERTS"""""""" saying a near mint pair of Generals Collar Tabs I owned were fakes because they didnt show red in the center. I noticed how interesting it was that of the 5 people that said it was bad, that no less than 4 of them contacted me privately wanting to buy them-one even said he bid $200.00. If they were fakes? why bid so much? Weird.

However, I knew all along they were trying to give me the royal shaft and thought that they could nab a great pair of tabs for 1/4 or so of the original value. Also, I knew it was real as these were a spare pair that came with a Generals estate that a friend of mind bought directly from his family back about 2000. Anyway, by the time my tabs had been posted and discussed about on that site, and I even had 4-5 rank insignia collectors on my side on this, I had seen numerous photos of Generals wearing collar tabs exactly like mine. One of the nay sayers said that mine couldnt be real only because he had never seen a pair of collar tabs without the red showing.

Anyway, glad you stuck to your guns on your instinct instead of listening to non expert "experts."

Hi,

Well, I didn't have to bring this piece myself before the North American overzealous Inquisition like you did. I bought it from the seller trying to sell a rare original on the e-stand.

It's very peculiar to publicly state a belief that an item is fake and then privately try to come with low offers to buy it. It reeks of foul play. It wouldn't surprise at all if this was a common strategy to deceive inexperienced collectors for the benefit of the sharks of the Inquisition.

- Kenneth

[history-buff1944]

Hi,

Well, I didn't have to bring this piece myself before the North American overzealous Inquisition like you did. I bought it from the seller trying to sell a rare original on the e-stand.

It's very peculiar to publicly state a belief that an item is fake and then privately try to come with low offers to buy it. It reeks of foul play. It wouldn't surprise at all if this was a common strategy to deceive inexperienced collectors for the benefit of the sharks of the Inquisition.

- Kenneth

Hi Kenneth, that's my point exactly. I never go with just one opinion, rarely with as few as two. Im never in a hurry to buy or sell or trade and can afford to keep all my stuff till hell freezes over. Anyway, on that site, those dirty tricks on trying to get good stuff from others be using scare tactics-is the lowest form of collecting I have ever seen or heard of. I guess what used to be a collectors respect for another collector and his items has totally gone out thedoor with greedy jerks. Using those tactics and also the tactic of either sell it to me at MY price or ill get my buddies to publicly agree that YOUR item is fake-kinda thing. That was ow that site owner managed to get an original Knights Cross from someone with lesser experience in such matters.

Those same nay-sayers also tried to get my three pairs of Waffen SS officers shoulderboards and my two W-SS Collar tabs--by saying they in the least-were skethcy because all that I have that is Waffen SS-is in mint condition. Also, I had my items verified by two highly respectable sources who are still selling on the web. One source was Diane Schrieber at Historica as well as someone from the TRDepot. My items were verified about 12 years ago. What I have are mint unused pairs of Panzer SS Untersturmfuhrer boards, Panzer SS Obersturmbannfuhrer Boards and SS Feldgendarmerie Sturmbannfuhrer Boards, and mint collartabs for SS Nordland as well as SS Sturmbrigade Langemarck. On the Langemarck tab, a good friend of mine who was a Waffen SS RKT (Paul will know exactly whom im referring to) wanted me to trade my collartab for his-and his happened when Susanne adn I visited for 12 hours at he and his wife apartment in Hagen back in 2000. I wished I had traded collartabs not because I knew they would be very vauable and traced back to this RKT, but because he was a great friend whom also helped me get started into writing to other RKTs. This gent gave me a list of some 550++ addresses to many RKTS and some addresses to some who rarely sign. I was able to afford to contact about 20-but couldnt write to them all. Anyway, I got to where im at now, thanks to this Gent. ;-))

Sorry for such a long reply but the jist of this all is that I fully agreed with you good post as well as to let any out here who will read this, to be wary of those who flat out and without precidence-say their stuff if a fake when I proved all those ""experts"" wrong more than once.