kriegsmarine soldbuch

gernika · 03-06-2010, 04:28 PM

Hello, two years ago I bought a Kriegsmarine soldbuch. It hasn´t photo, and is of 1945.

What is your opinion? Fake?

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 03-06-2010 04:28 PM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**Justin P** · 03-06-2010, 06:44 PM

Hi

Could I ask what concerns you have with the Pass? TBH these are not my Strong point--esp KM) so like your self I'm keen to learn and here what others say. Have you checked the FP to see if it ties in with whats on the stamp? I don't have my FP CD so hopefully someone else will help out regarding this.

gernika · 03-06-2010, 06:54 PM

Hello
This soldbuch never had a photo and I read the kriegsmarine all the time had photo. And this soldbuch was made in 1945 and have a lot of medals. For me is rare but I not expert
thanks and regards

**hucks216** · 03-06-2010, 07:14 PM

The Feldpost Number (24616) seen in the stamps is for an Army artillery unit...
(6.4.1944-9.11.1944) 17.6.1944 Stab III/123 u. 7.-9. Batterie Artillerie-Regiment 162,
(10.11.1944-Kriegsende) 17.1.1945 gestrichen.

...which is not impossible if he was re-assigned from the KM to the Heer when the need for replacements saw a manpower trawl reassign numerous KM & Luftwaffe personnel into ground combat units but that doesn't explain the entry by a Naval officer at the bottom of Pg 2. What does the soldbuch show for his unit listings?
Going from what I see so far I'd say that this might be just an average KM soldbuch and someone has entered the awards post-war and had a stamp handy to use to make it look like an official entry and then placed stamps on other pages to 'add weight' to that one stamp. If you look at the entry at the bottom of Pg 2 (the Naval Officer one) you can see that there was another stamp there originally that has been stamped over by the suspect one.
Another point is that the first award entered - Kampfabzeichen which means War Badge - isn't very specific, but again maybe it was entered by a soldier who wasn't familiar with Naval awards.
I'd like to see the unit page.

**Justin P** · 03-06-2010, 08:14 PM

Your Correct regarding Photo should be attached after said date-I'm unsure of when)? But there are some exceptions, Saying that the stamp on the Awards page and other pages that Kevin mentions. looks suspect for me, along side the award entries are from the same Hand? the signature on the same Page-And page 2) looks Forced.

by gernika

Hello
This soldbuch never had a photo and I read the kriegsmarine all the time had photo. And this soldbuch was made in 1945 and have a lot of medals. For me is rare but I not expert
thanks and regards

**ian** · 03-06-2010, 08:27 PM

? do you think mabe this could be a replacement for a lost document ,mabe that would explane the award entrys being in the same hand and signd off colectively by one man ? just a thought i have no knowlage of documents at all so im not realy qualified ,cheers ian

**hucks216** · 03-06-2010, 08:36 PM

While the awards being entered n the same hand isn't a particular red flag as such in this case as this is a Zweitschrift (i.e. replacement) soldbuch and the awards won in the past would be entered in one go, but as with Justin I don't like the signature next to the awards. I'd expect to see the signers details next to or under his signature, as demonstrated with this early war Zweitschrift KM wehrpass...

**Auseklis** · 03-06-2010, 08:36 PM

Your ignoring the most important thing on this Soldbuch...
The first handwritten word in this one reads "Zweitschrift". That means it is a replacment for a lost (in this case most probably thrown away by the owner) soldbuch.
This Soldbuch was issued postwar for discharge from the Wehrmacht. And since this was it's only purpose, picture was not of big importance.
Many soldiers had thrown away their soldbooks when changing into civilian clothes to make it home somehow. After geting to one of the dischargement units, in this case Artillerie-Regiment 162 (some Wehrmacht units did not disband at the end of the war for that purpose), they had to realize that they needed their Soldbuch for discharging from the Wehrmacht.
So at that point many Soldbuchs had to be recreated from scrap.

**hucks216** · 03-06-2010, 08:48 PM

by Auseklis

..After geting to one of the dischargement units, in this case Artillerie-Regiment 162 (some Wehrmacht units did not disband at the end of the war for that purpose), they had to realize that they needed their Soldbuch for discharging from the Wehrmacht.
So at that point many Soldbuchs had to be recreated from scrap.

A fair point but if the discharge unit was Artillery Rgt 162 and this was a soldbuch made from scrap why is there a Naval officers entry at the bottom of Pg 2? If the discharge unit was Naval than why the Heer stamps?

**ian** · 03-06-2010, 08:49 PM

hi Hucks216
i agree the signee should put his name and contact details under his sig
but did they realy care about that at the end of the war , if this is a document replaced for dischaarge purposes this man may have had to do hundreds when all he wanted to do was go home ,just a thought cheers ian
mabe the naval officer was the senior officer present and had to counter sign the documents ?
having read through page 2 again (my german is not that good ) the naval officer apears to have signd an identaty verification ?? (im bound to be wrong here cos im well out of my depth)