Early Elite Photo

**Bill T** · 07-25-2010, 08:49 AM

well i didnt want to say it.....but is there a chance that the men in the back of my group photo with the neat helmets are GESTAPO?? That would be my closest guess as to what they actually are. Please, anyone with a guess would be aprreciated. Thanks

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 07-25-2010 08:49 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**HPL2008** · 07-25-2010, 10:26 AM

by Panzer1031

well i didnt want to say it.....but is there a chance that the men in the back of my group photo with the neat helmets are GESTAPO?? That would be my closest guess as to what they actually are. Please, anyone with a guess would be aprreciated. Thanks

Definitely not Gestapo. All the men in this photograph are Police members; their uniforms are pre-Third Reich. The headgear of the men in question are Tschakos. Here's a Prussian example:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...er_Tschako.jpg

There were differences in shape, color and badges between the various German states, but you get the picture.

Gestapo men, in any case, were plain-clothes political police and thus usually wore no uniform. (If deployed to occupied territories in wartime, security police personnel - i.e. Gestapo as well as Kripo - were authorized to wear SD-pattern uniforms and insignia, but not Ordnungspolizei uniforms.)

**Bill T** · 07-25-2010, 10:52 AM

Thanks alot HPL. I was hesitant to even question the possibility of them being gestapo, but there is a famous picture of a gestapo man holding a dog with a muzzlecage attatched to it and he is wearing a very similar helmet, if not the same one. That is the only reason it crossed my mind. I know what the typical gestapo get-up is, but was just curious thats all. Thanks alot for helping me in my photo purchases HPL! truly appreciated

And i just looked at your picture of the helmet......And YEP! thats the same helmet in the famous image i am talking about. I will try to find a copy to paste on here to show u. But very interesting helmet. Thanks alot

**Bill T** · 07-25-2010, 11:04 AM

makes me question the title of the well known image i am talking about now because the man is most definately wearing the Tschakos headgear as shown in your photo link. He is standing next to an elite member with an early style kepi. I tried to post the image, but it says it is too large to post. I will try and resize the image if i can figure out how. U have taught me some new things lately and have furthered my studies. I hope to someday have your expertise HPL

**Bill T** · 07-25-2010, 11:36 AM

maybe OPRO (regular)german policeman? But heres the pic i was talking about. He is wearing the police uniform and the tschakos as you were showing i believe. Not a traditiional SHAKO. Awesome photo....but it was titled completely wrong as stating it was gestapo member. thats what threw me for a loop as i was hesitant to ask because i had never seen a gestapo dressed in such a uniform or with such headgear.

**HPL2008** · 07-25-2010, 02:23 PM

Right; that's a photograph from 5 March 1933 showing a "normal" Prussian policeman from Berlin, accompanied by an SS member from the 6th Standarte who is acting as an auxiliary policeman. No Gestapo connection there whatsoever.
Here is a higher-resolution version of this image from the German Federal Archives:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...am_Wahltag.jpg

**Bill T** · 07-25-2010, 07:15 PM

Oh wow that makes a world of difference that picture is compared to the one i found being sold as a repro! ha. Awesome Image though! And your right! the SS member has the white police helper "hulfpolizei"?? armband. I think i have the spelling wrong, but i cant remember the name written on that armband exactly. i didnt even notice that until you pointed it out. well that solves that. again....thanks HPL

so could it be possible to say that the policemen in my group photo might be from berlin? or could that prussian helmet be worn w/ the uniform in other parts or areas around Germany? im sure you cant really say indefinitely, but just curious as to what you might think

**HPL2008** · 07-25-2010, 07:19 PM

by Panzer1031

Oh wow that makes a world of difference that picture is compared to the one i found being sold as a repro! ha. Awesome Image though! And your right! the SS member has the white police helper "hulfpolizei"?? armband. I think i have the spelling wrong, but i cant remember the name written on that armband exactly. i didnt even notice that until you pointed it out. well that solves that. again....thanks HPL

No problem, glad I could help!
(Oh, and, just for the sake of completeness: It's "Hilfspolizei")

by Panzer1031

so could it be possible to say that the policemen in my group photo might be from berlin? or could that prussian helmet be worn w/ the uniform in other parts or areas around Germany? im sure you cant really say indefinitely, but just curious as to what you might think

Sorry, can't say. Tschakos were not specific to Prussia and were worn throughout all the German states, but my knowledge about pre-Third Reich police uniforms is very limited. Somebody specializing in this area might identify from what particular state they are from, though. (Police badges, insignia and uniform colors differed between the various states before June 1936.)

**Bill T** · 07-26-2010, 05:55 PM

good call. thanks again. Im happy with the info ive already learned from you to be honest. just to know they made different styles of Shako headgear/helmets was enough to fulfill my interest. It's funny because just when you've thought you know alot of info about Early Germany's forces and WW2 you get a slap in the face with a whole new door of information to open. Thats why i love this hobby and the history of it all.....theres ALWAYS more to learn.

**Gew44** · 07-31-2010, 03:42 PM

Good afternoon,
I would like to show you one of my prefered photo; official group of Waffen-SS Leibstandarte "Adolf Hitler", on centre we see the famous Sepp Dietrich.
Hope you like it.
Best regards