12 th SS Hitlerjugend ID disc

[Erno]

Maybe in the future all these semi official diggers will shift their focus to the US and loot your unknown historical sites prior to the undoubted uproar that such action would provoke and see the legislation that follows it. You obviously think that Europe is fair game to looting under the name of the chance finding of human remains to be returned to their relatives, which of course with many remains they are already too far gone to be ID'd, but hey why let facts get in the way of finding some cool items for the display or to get on ebay.

This is an offensive personal attack. Are you suggesting that I support looting of war graves, as long as they aren't in my own country? There are hundreds of Civil War and Revolutionary War battlefields in my country. I would not and do not support the looting or desecration of war graves or important historical battlefields (like Gettysburg, which is both). (Likewise, I don't support the destruction or desecration of Confederate war graves and monuments.) However, most sites which saw small skirmishes will never be excavated by archaeologists, and in fact, most are not considered important enough to warrant something of that nature. Finding a few belt buckles and rusted pistols does little to further what is already known about many of those areas, but nonetheless, many small metal detecting clubs hold regular hunts in places like that and then donate the items to local museums for display. Maybe they would also serve more use in the ground.

If you are suggesting that looting doesn't happen here, then that is also not correct. There is plenty of illegal excavating done in places like Gettysburg, and individuals are rightly arrested regularly for doing such. Gettysburg is notorious for people prying bullets out of any wooden structures in the area to be kept as souvenirs, and there was even more unsanctioned and detrimental activity there in the past, before battlefields were actively protected.

The problem does not belong only to Europe, nor to all amateur hobbyists.

[Jerry B]

As regards building work, in the UK most such work has to be submitted to a planning authority before permission is granted and part of that process is that the local area archaeological body will undertake a study of the potential for archaeological remains to be disturbed by the work and in most case will insist that either an evaluation program of work will be undertaken or in cases of lesser potential a watching brief will be employed instead. If the intention is to just put up a garden shed, then the potential for damaging archaeological remains of any type would normally be considered to be very low and no action would be taken and in fact planning permission would not normally be needed.

As regards the questioning of the thread starter, it is forum policy that anyone who engages in metal detecting and wishes to post their results/finds on the forum have to submit their proof of official consent to the forum, usually by pm to a moderator, especially when heman remains are involved That is all that is being asked for and it was the thread starters responsibility to submit such proof to the forum at the start of this thread. Also if the thread starter had not couched his request in such sensationalist terms, regarding blood, hair, DNA etc....then perhaps the response would have been different. Again, was it really needed to ask such questions in a sub sector dedicated to ID discs when really it should have been asked of those to whom the remains were presented after their recovery.

[harryamb2]

hey guys this is getting out of hand.

[Jerry B]

hey guys this is getting out of hand.

too late mate, I have insulted at least two members with my opinions, but I will now close it.

[BOB COLEMAN]

My opinion is that whenever a war grave is detected, any relics associated with the bones should remain untouched until the soldier's remains are dealt with by the proper athorities. Items not wanted by the proper authorities can then be taken but never before. Everything with the remains is part of the story of the soldier's last day.

[Dimas]

The one way the Volksbund want- if you keep the remains in one place with a handwritten copy - description what is marked on dogtag, contact them, and they will find the way to contact you. They cannot prevent all the unofficial digging, but they want to collect the remains of soldiers.

[Paul D]

As an update to this thread which led to a few arguments etc , i have still received no answer from the OP regarding my questions about the legality of his digging activity and exactly what he has done with the human remains recovered.

The reason i have asked the questions is that in none of his explanations show that the correct procedures for excavating and recovering human remains in France are being followed.

[Paul D]

Further update to this thread . hopefully the OP will at some stage read this !!

The use of a metal detector in France is not illegal, but you must have permission of the landowner and also permission from the regions department of culture/history/archeaology. The use of detectors on the beach does not need these permissions unless it is restricted (military or other zone of specialised use).

It is not illegal to have a detector in your car also you are not guilty as it is an 'intention' to use one, the guilt arrives in the 'act' of doing it, if you do not have the " correct permissions "

"In France, the use of these devices is prohibited without administrative authorization, under penalty of a violation of € 3,000. But above all, the destruction site and stealing archaeological artefacts, corollaries of the use of detectors, are offenses punishable by seven years' imprisonment and a € 100,000 fine."

So i do wonder if the OP has actually reported the finding of the remains !!