Australian WWII - Far North Queensland Metal detecting and recovery

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Fossick #413

( I missed last Saturday completely )

A bewt NW breeze till 10:00 then it got real hot ~ 32 and 90 % humidity ~ so we called it a day ~

Dwayne and I headed out early ~ as in on site 06:15 ~

We both had a run on (*&_) Aluminum water drum bungs ~ I have plenty of them so left my seven for future generations ~

I also had mini run on (5) battery terminals ! All in separate holes ~ including the drum bungs ~

The epitome of Optimism ~ a Curlew nest ~

Three AMF buttons including an Officer’s cap band button~

I really am bemused at the sort of impact bent these buttons ~ The top one ~ Wow!

Merete is sceptical about the T piece I am adamant it is a simple trench art piece dedicated to the 9 Div.

SMLE drop weight cleaning rod ~

The top piece (RH top) is scrap value solid Brass ~

KG VI 1/2 Roo Penny ~

Maybe a 8.57 Italian Mauser?

As suggested leave the seven bungs and three battery terminals for future fossickers.. I know but that is me ~ generous ~

Dwayne had a reasonable day as well ~

The simple Trench art 9th Div T is a real treasure as simple as it is ~

Metal detecting 1943 ~ check out the size of the puppy ~ definitely harness job !

3928185 ATHERTON TABLELANDS QLD. 1943 07 02. SAPPERS OF THE ROYAL AUSTRALIAN ENGINEERS 9TH AUSTRALIAN DIVISION SWEEPING WITH MINE DETECTORS

Note Divisional patch on his hat
4115378 ATHERTON, QLD. 1943 10 21. VX57458 PRIVATE W. CONWAY OF THE 9TH AUSTRALIAN DIVISION, KNITTING SOCKS IN HIS SPARE TIME.

3919563 ATHERTON, QLD. 1943 07 05. GENERAL DOUGLAS MACARTHUR CONGRATULATES VX48771 MAJOR K. F. MOLLARD DSO, OFFICER IN CHARGE, GUARD OF HONOUR, AFTER THE INSPECTION.

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Well after several weeks of Horrendous extreme temperatures here in tropical North QLD ~ we are now being pounded by Horrendous Storms.


Weds after I returned to home base to avoid the 37 deg temps ~ a huge storm front swept in for the W NW~ We were on the road at the heading into Atherton to claim warranty on my third Camera ~


( Yep killed another one ~ and no we do not have the use or desire to own a Smart phone ~ So Harvey Norman paid the full value warranty and I have a Nikon A900 on order ! S o photos limited ! Having a bad run a new Equinox 800 [not bad thing!] )


Anyway the road was totally "white'd" out ~ and HAIL ~ wondered the bangs were on the vehicle ~ Hail in FNQ ~ What the ~

The down pour was so severe in fact it flooded via the ceiling ~ the Woolworth inc. plaza closing the place down ~

Anyway perfect day early with a NE breeze and now a cloud in the sky ~ But by 10:00 the breeze dropped off ~

I must be acclimatising as I stuck at it till around 13:00 before packing up and heading home ~ I even detoured to go jump in the lake~ but the water still felt too warm ~ It was then I noticed the ambient temp was 37~

Good day ~ a nice surprise find just as i headed back ~

A Major's Cap badge ( or possibly Warrant Officer Second Class badge ~ )

Penny KG VI 1943

1/2 Penny KG VI 1942

Razor back plate

Spoon stamped ~ Dept. Defence D/i\D

Lockwood pads *2

Oil water drum bung brass

Mystery item ~ no idea



The debate is still on the Badge but erring strongly toward the Major's badge ~

An email from mate who spent 35 years in the Army ~ and was a Major in his final; years ~


Okay~ even more details of the Badge ~

I messaged my Mate Bob who only recently resigned his commission as a Major in the Aust DF - Army ~

(Dare I suggest it is a cap badge~ as it has a single pin on the back ~ but evidence of a second

Seems the web is a very limited information source in this respect.)

(As found )

" This is a Kings (VI) Crown (queens crown is more convex).

The crown badge is worn by a Major, on the epaulettes.

The badge of rank for a Warrant Officer Class 2 (or WO2 , but never WO 2nd Class) is also a crown.

But is a woven cloth badge worn on the sleeve.

So I’d be very certain this one was worn by a Major."

​

RAAF Sergeant Major Class 2 (Warrant Officer Class 2), adjusting a bomb sight on a Supermarine Walrus amphibian aircraft. II

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Well the beat continues ~ a reply from Stuart, our on board Sqd. Ldr.

" Hi all

Pretty sure its a Majors rank badge that may have even been sewn on to a cap.

But these size crowns were also worn by WO2s in tropical areas on a wristlet when sleeves were rolled up that then hid the sewn on WO2 badge. Although mainly UK thing other Commonwealth countries including Australia did this as well.

I recall the Canadian Infantry WO's we worked with in Iraq all wore wristlets.

History of the RSM's badge, WO1 and WO2

You may remember this example from "It aint half hot mum" (Thats Ocker in the pith helmet.......)

Regards

Laney "

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The Mystery Bullet/ shells ~ Resolved ~


As mentioned previous page we had some concerns regarding the "Mystery shell cases " ~ Since tha post I have dug even more ~

The challenge has been that we have not been able to raise an effect or legible Head stamp ~

Until mate Robert actually measured them I just assumed they were US 30.06 rounds typical of the US Garand rifle and the .30 Browning machine gun ~

The fact I have seen photos of Australian troops in Papua using the Garand rifle (which I am including,) essentially muddied the issue of the 30.06 rounds.

28 Dec 1942- PAPUA.

INFANTRY BACK UP ATTACK ON BUNA BY AUSTRALIAN MANNED GENERAL STUART TANKS.

THE AUSTRALIAN IN THE PHOTO IS FIRING AN M1 GARAND RIFLE AT JAPS IN A PILLBOX 30 YARDS AWAY.

HE GOT THREE.

THE AUSTRALIAN WITH THE M1928A1 THOMPSON SUBMACHINE GUN IS CONCENTRATING ON A JAP SNIPER 60 YARDS AWAY.

THIS PHOTO WAS TAKEN DURING THE FIGHTING. AUSTRALIANS IN THE PHOTO DID NOT KNOW THEY WERE BEING PHOTOGRAPHED.

( I have found actually 30.06 rounds as well BTW, which is a little unusual in this area of the Atherton tablelands as there were no US bases in the immediate area. )

It was only recently when Robert came along for the ride and as a chief digger that he took home several of the spent cases and projectiles and measured them ~ This really threw the ca t amongst the pigeons as they did not match the 30.06 USA bullets.

In fact what he was able to "raise " only part of the head stamp from the shell casing bases suggested they were of European, even German and Russian rounds.

I managed to 'raise' some of the Head stamp form several cartridge cases and I was of the opinion they were "BESA" 7.92 mm machine gun rounds. E.G. : K42 (XXX ~) Z (Still not completely legible !)

Now as most know the BESA MG was fitted as weapons source in many British / Commonwealth Tanks ~

Besa machine gun - Wikipedia

The catch was too that I found a projectile / bullet head that fitted the casing ~ but only measured 21.5 mm! The standard BESA case being 57 mm long ~

SO yesterday I figured If I have been finding these rounds for some years in the same site I must have more And "BINGO" ~ I found a complete round unfired ~ And not having been fired the bras integrity of the casing was not jeopardized and I was able to raise a complete legible Head stamp ~

K40 IZ Case proven ~ Kynoch 7.92

Additionally I feel this site was also the camp site for at least one of the 1st Armour Regt. based on ID tags I have found in the area as well ~

BALIKPAPAN, BORNEO, 31 JULY 1945.

TROOPER R J NEWLAND CLEANING A 7.92MM BESA MARK 2 MACHINE GUN OF MATILDA TANK, 5 TROOP, B SQUADRON, 1 ARMOURED REGIMENT.

The 1st Armour mostly ran Matilda Tanks and the Matilda ran with BESA 7.92 mm Machine guns ~

As fore the shorter projectile of 21.5mm ~ one theory Robert and I discussed this morning ~ the top turret Machine gun my well have had tracer rounds to "spot" a target before the main gun was fired on the target ~

MOROTAI. 1945-05-21.

TROOPS WORKING ON A 7.92MM BESA MACHINE GUN AND THE THREE INCH HOWITZER ON A MATILDA MK II TANK OF 10 TROOP, B SQUADRON, 2/9 ARMOURED REGIMENT DURING PREPARATIONS FOR THE OBOE 6 OPERATION.

IDENTIFIED PERSONNEL ARE: TROOPER F. D. HARDING (1); TROOPER N. MCCLURE (2).

AITAPE-WEWAK SECTOR, NEW GUINEA. 1945-04-26.

CPL L. JONES (1), AND PTE J. MOANE (2), MEMBERS OF 2/3 INFANTRY BATTALION LOOKING AT THE DAMAGE DONE TO THE BASE OF A TREE BY BESA 7.92 MACHINE-GUN BURSTS FROM A TANK, KILLING A JAPANESE SNIPER, WHO FIRED AT ~ AND MISSED, THE POINT SCOUT.

Finschhafen, New Guinea. 12 November 1943. Matilda tanks arrive on landing craft barges to support AIF in the area.






(Just down the rroad form our current home )

MALANDA AREA, QUEENSLAND. 1944-12-11.

C SQUADRON, 2/9 ARMOURED REGIMENT MATILDA TANKS IN MOVEMENT ALONG THE GLEN ALLYN ROAD TO THE FINAL ASSAULT AGAINST LAMMIN'S HILL AND THE CONCLUSION OF EXERCISE "RAMPANT"

.

Once aagian to Doug Tilly's excllent web site : Head Stamps


http://www.doug-and-dusty.com/Head_S...2mm%20BESA.pdf

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Well perfect day ~ absolute cracker ~

Jus could not get motivated ~ so poking around and started talking to Ben in Brisbane and finally thought~ “ FSS~ get off your arse SS and get out there ~ you got a cracker MD and a brand new one as well !”

I thought I would give DM a ring but he was in Cairns for the day with the kids ~

I Spent an hour chewing the fat on a impromptu visits before I broke away to do a bit of hunt ~ I headed to very old ground ~ the only optimism I had was that the recent heavy rain would have washed away a lot of top soil ~ Definitely not expecting any thing spectacular !

Started off slow and still managing few oddments and relics on extremely well worn ground ~ But the Equinox 800 started to deliver right from the get go ~ I mean even a oil/ petrol drum bung was surprise right on the parking spot ~

I spent < 2 hours working the area ~ lots of targets and lots of tent tubes ~

the Axe is way past saving as it is separating/ laminating ~

Fortunately it is very easy digging ~ to about 50 cm before it goes to stony ground ~

The trash was spectacular but as I was told years ago~ by our on board UK~ War archaeologist ~ "Find the trash and your finds will go up ten fold ~"

( These tent tubes cost Two Pounds each and the issue came up in Australian Parliament in `1945 regarding the Aust. Armies wanton waste of materials on the Tablelands ! Tent Pole joiners being directly mentioned! )

Then on top of the rise I scored what I think is a Artillery shell primer/ fuze guard ~

( I have tried it on the 25 Pdrs. I have and even the securing brackets which I KNOW are 25 Pdr. Smoke shells ~ fuze guard securing bracket/s ~ I think it is matched to say a 17 Pdr or even smaller shell ~ I may be corrected here but looks the part to me ~ Including two 180 deg holes to suit a slot / lug spanner ~

The first Clean Up ~

Since then I have identified the second mystery item the roundel ~

It is a Lens fascia for a Aldis Signal light ~

A 10 Inch version but almost identical ~

(Interestign that he has a Rising Sun on his Beret.)

Corporal Eddie Smith of Hamilton, Vic, with a portable lamp signalling to accompanying barges. Nineteen ALC 40's and one ALC 120 of 41st Landing Craft Company, Royal Australian Engineers crossed the Coral Sea during the epic voyage from Cairns, Qld, to Jacquinot Bay on the southern coast of New Britain.

Lucas daylight signalling lamp practice at the 4th Divisional Signalling School at the 12th Training Battalion. Lamp was very portable, simple and easy to handle. Identified, left to right: Private (Pte) K. C. Dowie, 50th Battalion, behind Lucas Lamp; Pte W. A. Hamilton, 50th Battalion, behind telescope. An unidentified Sergeant (probably a trainer as he has a signaller's badge indicating he is qualified) looks on as an unidentified Lance Corporal MM of the 50th Battalion writes on a notebook.

RAVENSHOE, Far North QUEENSLAND. 1945-01-08. D SECTION, 9 DIVISION SIGNALS USE AN ALDIS LAMP DURING GROUND TO AIR EXERCISES WITH A RAAF AIRCRAFT. IDENTIFIED PERSONNEL ARE:- SIGNALMAN DEAN, (1); CORPORAL NORTH, (2); SIGNALMAN STANLEY, (3).

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Several weeks back immediately beforre the Wet started I decided to do a short hunt on a Sunday afternoon at the lcal dam ~

The site one of my earliest sites` in fact where I found the 16 * 2" mortars ~

Mate Robert ~ with "Dog"~ came along for the walk about ~ it was stifling ~ high 30 degs ~

The Fuel/ oil stage tank ~







Some may recall the story of the Italian fascist flag and the medallions found in this same unit site ~ The 2/7th Cavalry ~

For one crazy moment we thought we have dug stolen treasure in the form of a Gold bar~ buried on site and the pundit/s never returned to recover their booty ! But Sorry ~ Five kilo !!~ LEAD bar ~

After a couple of hours all present enough and headed home to recover under the air cooler!

The 2/7th Batt~ originally operating Bren gun carriers and light armour in the North African and Middle eastern campaigns ~ changed to a COmmando unit after returning to Australia ~

Apparently they did take the carriers to Port Morsby but were of very of little value in the Jungle front~

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Did a hunt last weekend ~ Three man hunt ~ or perhaps described as 2 1/2 as Robert only digs holes for SS ~ but he is happy tagging along with "Dog" ~

Perfect weather with an occasional shower to col things off ~ Hunted a real old site ~ I think every man and his dog has been there ~ but as I said to Robert I have a theory and it paid off ~

A good day ~ and never expected such a good result ~ Primus component ~ a @' mortar safety guard ~ Slouch hat chin strap buckles ~ ( Fur Soft hat - ADF jargon) ~ Whiskey flask and of course the Rising Sun.

Mystery item below the Primus part ~


The RS is amazing ~ the inner Blue - black has retained the gloss and the outer rays the flay black ! The maker was KC Luke Melb,

Leaving Brisbane ~ 1943~ The 2/2nd batt. heading North for training and action front line.

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Sorry Blokes ~ been a Hell of Month and more ` Too much BS ~ too much wet weather and chaos at Work ~ Then heat waves!!

Well after Weds I am asking ~ do relics grow back ~ or what ~ THIS IS TOO WEIRD...


I mean how many of us ~ and how many times~ have we all trudged this very spot ~ Insane ~ I can count 6-8 of us ~ even Kevin and Noelene when they visited last year ~

And none of us till this one Weds found this Rising Sun ~ That is weird! Bizarre ~ Insane ~ (Not talking about the number total ~ Okay ~ LOL )

It is intact but has the right lower edge bent over ~ No pins ~ but retains some of the Black paint ~ ( Not sure if I will even endeavour to straighten the relic !)


Rob and I walked about five Kilometres ~ perfect ground ~ and conditions ~ High humidity ~

Note Army Issue water bottle centre frame. too far gone though!

( Definitely need to remember the Walkie talkie radios ~ lost each other too often ~ Phone reception very spotty out there ~ )



Although despite the rain almost non-stop from home base ~ the ground where we parked was dry as a bone ~ But our walk Paid off ~


Short of the base I found some time ago ( 1939) ~ this is the oldest ~ 1941 ~ which makes it an original first camp site ~

Dam shame about the ammo box/es ~

Even Dog was totally knackered by day’s end !! A couple of fairy showers but no more~


We even found evidence of early 1900s / 1800s Gold fossickers ~ long past ~ digging sample pit/s ~ As RS suggested they would tracked the gold trail up the creek to this point and with high hopes dug a huge pit s ~ some 2 M. round by 2 m deep ~ still~ ~

Another water flask ~

But as Rob suggested no one ~ or very few ever got rich chasing Gold on the Tablelands. Always just a trace ~ but nothing outstanding.

Scott’s Emulsion of Cod Liver Oil with Lime & Soda – Bay Bottles ... liver-oil-…/

[AT P Sweep]

Fossick #423

Return to the bottle dump

Well after the success of the initial hike and the untouched bottle dump and more we did a run back to the area and grabbed a few more bottles as there is quiet a variety and range of styles form Whiskey to sauce including PMU ~ and some very ornate cordial and sauce bottle.

And just for Heck;s sake I will refill some of these bottles with my own home brew!! Hmm!! ~ Beer!!!

[AT P Sweep]

Fossick #424

Another visit ot the dump site area ~

In addition to the ACP 45 there was a single Webbly .445 projectile and misc 9 mm ( Owen Gun)

A balmy 32 Deg about 85% ~ I head ed off and blow me down straight in to a Ammo Spill of ACP 45 cartridges ~ I have never dug many of the US ACP 45 cartridges. Generally the US brass was far inferior to the Australian and UK brass.


These cartridges generally rotted more readily than other Commonwealth casings ~ But today was whole new deal ~ They simply just kept coming.


I spent a couple of hours working the area ~ before eventually faltering in the heat ~ and home by 16:00

Mystery item ~ appears to ebb a spark plug terminal on the top and solid brass with insulators (??)

4089084 12 5 1942 PL. F.R. SMITH OF QUEENSLAND SQUATS IN THE GRASS WITH A TOMMY GUN.

Australian soldiers equipped with Thompson submachine guns at Tobruk, September 8, 1941






4095050 BELLMONT, QLD. 1944-01-09. GUNNER P. A. HOLDEN, AUSTRALIAN WOMEN'S ARMY SERVICE (1) PRACTICING HANDLING A .45 M1928A1 THOMPSON SUB MACHINE GUN.