Digging in the rain :)

[Datrus]

Make all the excuse's you want but all the above posters cant seem to arsed with the definition of 'culture, so it seems to give yourselves a license to choose for yourselves...

Lighten up pal. If it was so "important" to the Slovenian Government, i would suggest them to go dig it up themselves. Or even better. Started handing out some permissions to people willing to do it. It's very nice these items now see the light of day, and even tell a story.

Regards, Lars

[Paul D]

We clearly have differing opinions here and the mods are endevouring to ascertain the facts of the matter , so lets keep things civil guys or the thread will be closed. Thankyou for your cooperation !!

cheers

Paul

[Datrus]

Well it's always nice to agree to disagree if nothing else

My point was merely that sometimes people like "napalm" put up comments not taking into consideration the situation in the Eastern countries, outside EU that is. It's not like Western Europe at all. I have for more than 2 yrs ago been in Germany close to Halbe and dig. It took only 14 days to obtain a temporary permission through a fellow digger in Germany. I Western Europes most things, besides the economy works pretty well, and some people seem to put their mind on auto pilot and think it must be the same here. It's not. In Russia it's exactly forbidden to dig outside classified areas. One can see people detecting in trenches right next to the roads. Old road/highway defenses and police is driving by quietly. If one want's to get a permission for a specific area it takes a hell of a time if possible at all. Also"fees" meaning bribes are in play here. So if one bribes his way to a fully legit official permission to dig a memorial site, does the make it legal? Lots of "grey" areas here. The state supported digs work really slow and usually only go and find USSR soldiers. so dilemma is sometimes to sit and wait or let the black diggers do the work. They have no moral what so ever leaving remains of what ever soldiers at the top of the dug out trenches. I saw that on the first trip of our season, which was not at a memorial site. I have never dug such areas. Here we have even been on searches for soldiers for the "War Graves" without permission, hoping we would find fallen soldiers before the black diggers. All because everybody knows that the system works slowly here, or not at all. I am more than sure it's the same in Slovenia, so cut this guy some slack. If we dig on farm land it's very easy get permission from the farmer.

What i am saying is, that one can not compare digging in the East and West. It's like apples and tomatoes. Just my 2 cents on this.

Regards, Lars

[Wagriff]

Or then again...some people just like causing trouble if they see something many people like and they have a chance to ruin it...Why? Who knows? Envy? Jealousy? Petty small mindedness? Personal grudges? It's the way of the World today, I guess...

[JeZoCoH]

IMO it would be a big mistake to lave relics to vanish for ever. The new generations do not know what happend 70 years ago. I always ask for permission to dig. And im sure that real collectors respect battle relics much more than some stuff from the warehouse. And beside every relics is a story. Sometimes i wish that they can talk and tell the story that is forgoten a long time ago. But that is just my opinion.

[Frundsberg]

There were several thousand German and Ustasha war prisoners murdered after WWII ended in Slowenia by Tito terrorist groups. So many of these relics may also lead to the war graves. In many cases all cloths were taken away from the prisoners before they were murdered. So when You find many parts of uniforms, buckles, dogtags in the same area it can easily lead to the grave or prison camp. There are tens of secret war graves found in Slowenia during last 10-20 years, mostly in the mountains. So my point is - legal or not but diggers often do the work nobody else wants to do. And when even some KIA-s will find a propper resting place in military cemetary i belive diggers have done a good job.

[Datrus]

Good point. This could also be the reason the Slovenian government are not doing the work themselves. It could lead to having to deal with a troubled past.

Maybe the Slovenian digger "JeSoCoH" should try and investigate these areas a little closer? Reseach the Erkenningsmarken and try to find out if they are KIA's being victims of war crimes. A good way to pay a little back, being rewarded with all the nice finds.

Regards, Lars

[JeZoCoH]

Frundsberg you are right and i agree wit you 100%. As far as i know murders began after westrn allies return POWs to Yugoslavia. I live near the place they surrender to westrn alllies. For now i didnt find any parts of uniforms, just belt buckles, medals and other insigina. I was told that the retreating forces of Croatia and Germay was throwing away. Im not sure why but it must be a reason.

[Frundsberg]

It was wise to get rid of from all medals and insignia before surrender to communists. You can immagine what will happen to You when You will surrender in full W-SS uniform and with all Your awards. Weapons were also in many cases taken apart and just thrown away. It is the same sitauation in Kurland (Latvia) where thousands surrendered to the Soviets.

[me109g4]

Agree with frundsberg, not good showing up to captivity with all those medals etc. Keeping a low profile would maybe save your life.