The ethics of digging

[Johnny-D]

Digger,

With all due respect, I feel your statement is a little pompous! Look up the word 'excavation' in any dictionary....



excavate verb
/ˈek.skə.veɪt/ v [I or T]
• to remove earth that is covering very old objects buried in the ground in order to discover things about the past
• to dig a hole or channel in the ground, especially with a machine

(quoted from the Cambridge Dictionary)



Therefore, if anyone is taking the term out of context.... it is you sir!

I appreciate that you may well be professionally trained in archaeology, and closely guard archaeological terms.... but PLEASE don't jump on our backs for using the term 'excavate' loosely!

NO... we're not professionally trained!
AND NO... we probably don't record finds as vigorously as archaeologists!
BUT... we do carry out our digs with great planning, care and respect!

Maybe acknowledging those points will possibly begin to eradicate some of your narrow-minded, pompous, and ignorant views!

[Digger]

to remove earth that is covering very old objects buried in the ground in order to discover things about the past

Ok - so what are you finding out? My argument is that if people took the time to actually learn a little technique, theyd find out more than just simply medal detectoring. Its an ethical observation more than a pompous statement fuelled by ignorance. To be honest both of us could sit here all day calling eachother ignorant, but I dont choose to result to insult. How about the next dig you do, take a 6 figure grid reference of the area your excavating, put a small scale in your photographs of your objects.....do a quick "plan" drawing of your excavation and plot where your finds are....or is that too hard?

If you wanted to be even more responsible you could even do a section drawing showing at what depth youve found your artefacts....send it off to your local archaeology or PAS unit - even if the one isnt bothered, the PAS will be. Im not sounding off because I think all archaeology should be done by archaeologists only (although there are those who would say this!) - If you read my previous posts - if it wasnt for metal-detectorists then alot of stuff wouldnt be found. This being said, if you guys tried to compromise with archeeological techniques, rather than calling the trained guys c**ts for having ago at your lack of technique, perhaps then we'd all be better off?

[Johnny-D]

to remove earth that is covering very old objects buried in the ground in order to discover things about the past

Ok - so what are you finding out? My argument is that if people took the time to actually learn a little technique, theyd find out more than just simply medal detectoring. Its an ethical observation more than a pompous statement fuelled by ignorance. To be honest both of us could sit here all day calling eachother ignorant, but I dont choose to result to insult. How about the next dig you do, take a 6 figure grid reference of the area your excavating, put a small scale in your photographs of your objects.....do a quick "plan" drawing of your excavation and plot where your finds are....or is that too hard?

If you wanted to be even more responsible you could even do a section drawing showing at what depth youve found your artefacts....send it off to your local archaeology or PAS unit - even if the one isnt bothered, the PAS will be. Im not sounding off because I think all archaeology should be done by archaeologists only (although there are those who would say this!) - If you read my previous posts - if it wasnt for metal-detectorists then alot of stuff wouldnt be found. This being said, if you guys tried to compromise with archeeological techniques, rather than calling the trained guys c**ts for having ago at your lack of technique, perhaps then we'd all be better off?

Unbelievable! So now your making up your own little definition to the word 'excavate'? Haha! Priceless!!

It appears the group with the problem here is the professionals, not us amatures!! Now why don't you toddle off and tell yourself just how great you are!!!

[Digger]

Unbelievable! So now your making up your own little definition to the word 'excavate'? Haha! Priceless!!

It appears the group with the problem here is the professionals, not us amatures!! Now why don't you toddle off and tell yourself just how great you are!!!

Its not a case of my own little definition - how about you toddle off and try it out rather than resorting to personal attacks? And your statement is hilarious: "the problem here is the professionals, not us amatures" - yeah - ok pal.

[Steve T]

.......... Im speaking more specifically for the UK based threads, however generally people here are neglecting a deeper understanding of artefacts and sites in order to simply dig-up objects - thinking their going to learn everything from an object out of context. I am calm about this, I just feel passionately, like most archaeologically trained minds, about the processes of archaeology, and the artefacts.

I think this is why people react so strongly against you. It is hypocritical to seemingly infer that people relic hunting outside of the UK are not as bad, in your eyes, as those based in the UK. You say you are passionate about the artefacts and process which is very commendable, however, if we left the digging up of artefacts purely to archaeologists there would be virtually nothing in any museum in the entire world. You are a finite resource and need to understand that your passion is the same as ours, but we believe in preserving what remains, not leaving it to rot in the ground waiting for Tony Robinson to turn up.

It seems to me that people on this forum are either scared off or p*ssed off by archaeologists, who they interpret as spoiling all the fun. No one is saying dont do it, but if your going to do it, at least try to do it properly. Can you see where Im coming from? If this forum truly is about battlefield archaeology, and not simply about relic-hunting for hobby or profit, then you guys shouldnt have a problem with what Im saying.

I for one have tried and have explained this before. The archaeologists aren't interested.

The problem is that you're picking a fight where none exists. Excavation as a word is just that. You will note that the vast majority of people using the word do not have English as their first language. This is because excavation can mean just that.....to dig a hole ! It is not a word that belongs purely to the archaeological community.

Maybe the forum title is confusing for some, maybe not. I admit that the words 'battlefield archaeology' do not entirely reflect what many of us are doing, but what the heck else would you call it ?

Anyway, I have gone on enough. Just try not to sit in an ivory tower quite so much.

Steve T

[Johnny-D]

Your talking absolute rubbish! I really can't see what your point is!

You know what really bugs me? People on here posting up "excavation" in their thread. To excavate is to imply method and structure to what you are unearthing...not just metal detectoring the sh*t out of an area before you go randomly digging.....yeah its cool youve found an object, but dont try to add credence to what your doing by calling it excavation.

Ok, our techniques differ, but excavation is excavation.... its as simple as that!!!

excavate verb
/ˈek.skə.veɪt/ v [I or T]
• to remove earth that is covering very old objects buried in the ground in order to discover things about the past

Just because archaeologists use a different approach and method to 'excavation', doesn't mean the definition of the word changes!!! Therefore your whole arguement is flawed!!!

[Digger]

Steve -

I cant understand why you guys focus on what Im saying as an attack - my point seems to be lost. All Im saying is - compromise, try a little more technique - the archaeology units wont tend to be interested unless you give them the right information:

take a 6 figure grid reference of the area your excavating, put a small scale in your photographs of your objects.....do a quick "plan" drawing of your excavation and plot where your finds are

Otherwise there is nothing they can do - youve already removed the stuff out of the ground/its context. If you cant give them the information above, contact the PAS (have you spoken with them Steve?).
I can understand that Im appearing to be giving UK guys a hard time, but thats because in this country there are facilities in place now which can allow us all to work together and mutually support one another in a similar hobby. We can all do more to learn more about the past.
I dont agree with much of the technique (or lack of technique) used in alot of the threads on this section of forum - not just the UK stuff. But then in Eastern Europe you really can say the majority of archaeologists "arent interested". Im hoping that for you UK guys, you might take onboard what Im saying, and see it as you connecting more with your hobby, rather than a ball ache....

The next time you go digging Steve, just take a camera, ruler, pencil and pad with you. Im sure you already mark down the GPS or grid pos anyway....

All the best
Tom.

[Johnny-D]

The next time you go digging Steve, just take a camera, ruler, pencil and pad with you.

Again.... your assuming!

[Digger]

Your talking absolute rubbish! I really can't see what your point is!



Ok, our techniques differ, but excavation is excavation.... its as simple as that!!!

excavate verb
/ˈek.skə.veɪt/ v [I or T]
• to remove earth that is covering very old objects buried in the ground in order to discover things about the past

Just because archaeologists use a different approach and method to 'excavation', doesn't mean the definition of the word changes!!! Therefore your whole arguement is flawed!!!

Its all the things which are associated with the context mate - we're in an archaeology forum - youd expect "excavation" to mean the methodicle process of removing earth that is covering very old objects buried in the ground in order to discover things about the past.....

Despite the semantics of "excavation", my main point is about getting people to use some of the archaeological processes when they are "excavating" their finds. Be more archaeologically conscious - and develop your hobby to work with archaeologists.

[Digger]

Again.... your assuming!

No - Im making an informed opinion based off the examples posted up on the forum....Id be happy for you to prove me wrong.

Whilst I know Steve takes a camera.....the advice is also generalised for other peoples benefit.