HERO OF THE SOVIET UNION Alekseev Konstantin Stepanovich

[StefanM]

I think that it is quite likely that honorary appointments to the Order of the British Empire do not appear in the London Gazette - I've just tested it with other honorary appointments and they are not included. They do, or at least some of them, appear in records at the National Archives and are sometimes mentioned in The Times. When I get a chance, I'll drop the National Archives a line. It would be interested to know what was on the citation.

I wonder if there were any reciprocal awards - British subjects awarded soviet decorations? It would be interesting to see a British medal group with such a medal included.

Philip

There are 83 military personnel of Polish origin that received honours listed in the London Gazette January 1946- June 2013, two examples of whom are:

Chmielowiec,
Andrzej Boguslaw MBE 1952 RAF Squadron Leader Miltary ref: 500266 Lon. Gazette Ref: 39555

Gierzod,
Kazimierz MBE 1951 RAF Flight Lieutenant Miltary ref: 500357 Lon. Gazette Ref: 39243

The 83 Honour Awards (by Seniority) to Poles in the military listed in the London Gazette 1946- June 2013:
CMG = 1
CB = 2
CBE = 2
OBE = 3
MBE = 14
BEM = 11
AFC = 17
AFM = 3
KCVS = 3
QCVS = 24
QVRM = 2
ARRC = 1

Not sure about any wartime honours at the moment.

[thorne83]

Hi guys,

I can only go on my experience researching Air Force affairs. Personnel from occupied countries (Norwegians, Poles, Czechs etc), who were awarded British gallantry awards, were not published in the LG due to said personnel having relatives still living in occupied countries. I can only assume that the same was applied to Russians also. With regards to whether Commonwealth personnel were awarded Russian gallantry awards, the answer is yes. Here are a number of RAF personnel I have gathered recommendations for:
Russian Awards

I'm sure there would be, in particular, quite a few awards to naval personnel (Arctic convoys etc).

As far as his recommendation would be located, it will almost certainly be in the National Archives. I'll see if I can find a possible reference!

Cheers, Tom

[StefanM]

Good point re nondisclosure of those people from German occupied countries.

Konstantin Stepanovich Alekseev is mentioned in this Osprey book so it may have a reference to his MBE-OBE?

[DrPMC]

There are 83 military personnel of Polish origin that received honours listed in the London Gazette January 1946- June 2013, two examples of whom are:

Chmielowiec,
Andrzej Boguslaw MBE 1952 RAF Squadron Leader Miltary ref: 500266 Lon. Gazette Ref: 39555

Gierzod,
Kazimierz MBE 1951 RAF Flight Lieutenant Miltary ref: 500357 Lon. Gazette Ref: 39243.

That's a good way of testing whether honorary appointments are included, but I think it necessary to consider whether they had been naturalised prior to the award. If so, they would have been British subjects and so eligible to be full members of the order. With respect to Kazimierz Gierzod, there is a naturalisation record in that name at the National Archives from 1948 (Naturalisation Certificate: Kazimierz Gierzod. From Poland. Certificate BNA9745 issued... | The National Archives).

For me, this is complicated because I don't have much faith in the LG search facility - In the past I've used it to search for people who I know are in there and it hasn't found them. However, I have tested this point just now by manually searching the indexes for two more recent admissions to the Order of Merit, in 1995: the first, honorary, for Nelson Mandela is not included in the Gazette, whereas the second, to Sir Aaron Klug, is (p. 14335).

Tom's point about the security aspect makes a lot of sense. However, as far as mentions in the LG are concerned, I wonder if there is also a difference between decorations for gallantry (DFC etc) and orders of chivalry (OBE, KB, OM etc.). This is turning out to be quite complicated!

Regards,

Philip

[StefanM]

It does seem more complicated than at first sight.
Foreign nationals were allowed to serve with HM Forces. I am pretty sure that my late father a Polish national was not naturalised until the mid-1950s having enlisted with the Royal Armoured Corps in 1948 having previously served with 2PolCorps and then Polish Resettlement Corps until 1948. So presumably he could potentially have been eligible for an honoury award between 1948 and his naturalisation in the 1950s for serving in HM Forces?

[DrPMC]

It does seem more complicated than at first sight.
Foreign nationals were allowed to serve with HM Forces. I am pretty sure that my late father a Polish national was not naturalised until the mid-1950s having enlisted with the Royal Armoured Corps in 1948 having previously served with 2PolCorps and then Polish Resettlement Corps until 1948. So presumably he could potentially have been eligible for an honoury award between 1948 and his naturalisation in the 1950s for serving in HM Forces?

My belief is that awards for gallantry made to servicemen who were not British subjects would not be honorary and that the 'honorary' status would only apply to orders of chivalry ('honours'). Admission to such an order (British Empire, Bath, Thistle, Garter, Merit etc) is in the gift of the sovereign to and - at least in theory - permanently elevates them to higher status among the monarch's subjects (hence the different graduations of Member, Officer, Knight etc.). A decoration for gallantry (MM, MC etc) is awarded for a specific act; admission to an order alters a subject's status to the monarch. This makes sense to me, but I'd be grateful if there is anyone who can point to an authoritative source that lays it all out in black and white. Perhaps, like so much of the British 'unwritten constitution' this is shrouded in mystery.

Philip

[thorne83]

Hi gents,

as far as I'm aware the same principal applies for chivalry awards (honorary members too) , as they are still for service to the Allies, so there was still a need for security to the recipients relatives.

Cheers, Tom

[StefanM]

Not sure when General W. Anders was awarded the Most Honourable Order of the Bath presumably post-war?

If Major Alekseev was awarded an MBE-OBE I wonder did Stalin ever receive any Honours from his Allies the US and Britain?

[thorne83]

Just after Cassino, according to the web:

"Speech by General Sir Harold Alexander, Commander-in-Chief of the Allied Armies in Italy to the II Polish Corps shortly after the Battle of Monte Cassino

"In the name of His Majesty George VI, King of Great Britain, I confer on you the Order of the Bath”

"By conferring on General Anders the Order of the Bath, my Sovereign has decorated the Commander of the II Army Corps for his excellent leadership, and also by it expressed his appreciation for the extreme gallantry and great spirit of self-sacrifice shown by the Polish soldiers during the battle of Monte Cassino. It was a day of great glory for Poland, when you took this stronghold the Germans themselves considered to be impregnable. It was the first stage of a major battle that you went through for the European fortress. It is not merely a brilliant beginning: it is a signpost showing the way to the future. Today I can sincerely and frankly tell you that. Soldiers of the II Polish Corps, if it had been given to me to choose the soldiers I would like to command, I would have chosen the Poles. I pay my tribute to you."

It is not announced in the LG.

Cheers, Tom