My first SA Dienstdolch C. Eppenstein-sohne

[AZPhil]

Thank You Larry for your outstanding work on the Gruppe/Manufacturers list.
Just fantastic information.
The lime water info was also very intersting. I will have to try this when I start back up making knives.

Semper Fi
Phil

[thanson]

Thanks for all this information from everyone. Especially interesting about the wood treatment process.

What does anyone recommend for cleaning daggers? Just a dry fine cloth?

Also I was thinking, could the crossguard have been damaged while the dagger was still being carried? Since its just the cross guard that was swapped out and everything else looks right to this dagger I was thinking mabe it was replaced early on it its life? Does the patina seem to look uniform?

[thanson]

Ok So I decided to very carfully disassemble the dagger....no worries, I didn't hurt the nut that holds everything together.

I found the both the upper and lower crossguards are have St. stamped in both of them twice

The blade has an a capital A inside of a circle and underneath it has the number 11.

[thanson]

[Wagriff]

Interesting. So both guards match each other! However, as Larry said, Eppenstein made guards should be marked "EW". So what then? Makers did buy or even trade parts from each other to meet their production quotas. But then you have the enigmatic "Wf" stamping for the Westfalen Gruppe which as of the present date, although attributable to many other SA makers, is unknown for Eppenstein SA daggers. If the guards match each other, then it's the Grip itself that may have been the replaced part, which is always possible, seeing as how brittle and cracked up we see some wood grips can be over time. This would explain the very poor fit of the grip to both guards. The internal "ST" guard markings are from an unknown maker and have been seen on both SA and SS daggers.

So, is this then an Eppenstein SA with an heretofore unreported "Wf" Gruppe mark that has had it's grip replaced by "someone sometime"? Or....is it a complete mix and match of parts dagger assembled to sell the GI tourists after the war? This was a common practice to do to sell the occupying troops souvenirs they could not find for themselves. I have to admit, I am leaning towards the mix and match theory more than anything else here. There seems to be no other possibilities that I can think of here and the 1st theory is not too likely, in my opinion. If this Was a post-war put together, it could have up to 69 years of aging to it by now, so this is looking more and more the solution.

[Larry C]

Hi Thanson, I agree with William that the grip may not belong. The Foundry markings "St" have been seen on a few other makers..but not a common marking seen too often. With that being said...now there may be a 50 / 50 possibility that the "Wf" group marking "may have could have" been assigned by the SA High command to be sent to the Wesrfalen district. I have seen dirty untouched SA examples..and a perfect tight fit of grip and crossguard....yet the Gruppe mark was not referenced anywhere. This hobby continues to turn up unseen pieces of the puzzle. Without the grip..in this case..it is hard to prove this theory,, that this dagger was assigned to the "Westfalen" district. I also feel another grip was added.
The other point William touched on is a Liberated post war put together. Patina takes a good 10 yrs to show any age..in the case of early Nickel fittings. I do like the "St" guards though as they are the heavier type felt in hand..more so than other guards.

The tang marking is fine in this matter which also belonged to a blade forger who supplied blade blanks to certain produces who did not have the ability to produce blades.... OR.... did not have enough time to produce them..and relied on a sub contractor.

There are SA daggers in many collections today that could be GI put togethers..and no other way to prove it..because the grip fit is perfect. Thats a fact !! hard to tell..and when we see a dagger from the early period ...it is known that these were put together very well. Occasionally there are a few Monday morning produced daggers..that do slip by..this one could have been one of them. So your Eppenstein dagger " May" have been one of these..but no way to tell.
You still have a desirable rare maker...an "8" out of a "10" scale for rare producers. Thats nothing to be sad about. Hang on to it...it will appreciate in time. Rgards Larry