Quesions about a Helbig SA Dagger (pre-RZM)...

[dzyner]

Hi all,

I picked up this Helbig maker marked SA Dagger and am curious about its rarity. I've searched around for a maker marked Helbig and can only seem ti find the RZM marked examples. If it rare to come across a maker-marked Helbig SA?...















Thanks!
Dzyner

I collect WW2 German SA Daggers.

[Larry C]

MAJOR SCORE Dyzner!! Helibig SA daggers are one of the rare of the rare as it rates a 10 on the McSaar list. VERY HARD to find this maker. The early long nosed snap clip is a plus also. Great conditioned !! Period all the way! regards Larry

[big ned]

MAJOR SCORE Dyzner!! Helibig SA daggers are one of the rare of the rare as it rates a 10 on the McSaar list. VERY HARD to find this maker. The early long nosed snap clip is a plus also. Great conditioned !! Period all the way! regards Larry

Larry, is it correct that Helbig were the only dagger makers who used steel crosspieces that were then plated, unlike others that used zinc or pot metal?? That would indicate that they would be the only magnetic type of crosspieces around wouldn't it??

[dzyner]

Thanks Larry! I appreciate the kind words. I think the eagle may have been replaced at some point as there appears to be a small footprint left from the original, but IMO it looks like a period replacement simply based on the degree of care that was taken to fit the new eagle into the grip. Looks like its been there a while.

[Larry C]

Hi Ned ,, Yes if they were RZM daggers in general,, but not to my recollection that "FA Helibig" made these type of crossguards on any early examples ...OR..late RZM Helbig examples. Nothing has surfaced to my knowledge about early steel guards being used. ,, and as far as late examples ...Yes!.. Some makers used steel crossguards on the later RZM types but who used them? Hard to say,, but there is a possibility that Helbig used them on late examples. Sightings seen of the same maker would give a better idea as who used them the most,, but nothing is written down as such,, only what has been found. Too much parts trading going on towards the end of the war,, so anymaker could of had them and put them on,,... or a post war application. IF THERE WAS AN EARLY CROSSGUARD that was made of steel and it had a gruppe mark just for verification,,I am very positive that no matter what was applied over it,, it would of picked off and lifted like the late examples. I have not seen any early crossguards ever doing that except those that someone got their hands on and switched out the part. If there is an early gruppe marked steel crossguard out there it would be beneficial for the forum to see it,, including myself.
@ Dyzner......I agree that it is very possible that it is a period replacement,, if you take notice to the tight fit of the crossguard to grip,, you would know that this company didnt make junk. So I beleive this eagle to be a period replacement. just because a dagger is a #10 on a rarity list doesnt make it a diamond,,,, just rare. I have seen worse on some 10s compared to 3s. JMO. I have seen only 2 other times an FA Helbig SA and once an RZM example. Take special note of the accent grooving as they are a shallow depth. I have seen this type of grooving on a Thuringia maker which is not commonly seen. You have a nice find!! Hang on to it Regards Larry

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Darren, very nice dagger, well done.

Hi Larry and Ned, in addition to Larry's comments re LATER steel crossguards used on RZM daggers. I have one by M7/73 which can be seen below. I have not observed any others on EARLY daggers.

Cheers, Ade.

[gerrit]

You are lucky, great looking early Helbig, just look at the way this one was build!
Perfect the way they made the grip fit the cross guards!
I could not resist a knife like this!
Enjoy it

cheers,
Ger