Rarity list for SA Dienstdolch makers.

[Larry C]

Hi Aechols...you have a rarity for sure..the "P" on the lower crossguard represents the SA grupe district "Pomerania" which is located Northeastern Germany...check out this list of all SA gruppe marks here along with a topical map to give you the exact location to where this dagger has been....SA Dienstdolch group markings

Your dagger fits perfectly together from what I can see and your maker is one that has the Gruppe mark that does not appear on the Gruppe mark list on the top of the forum. Congrats..your the first known owner of a Gruppe mark "P" on an Otto Stover. The only known Gruppe mark for this maker is "Nrh"..for Niederheim. ..which is a commonly seen gruppe mark with SA daggers.
I can not discern by the photo quality if the scabbard is black or dark brown. I will PM you with a near price what its worth as this maker is rarely seen. Nice dagger I hope in the future that you will be able to post better photos as we dont see these rarities too often

[gerrit]

Rarity lists are often used by dealer to make the dagger more expensive.
There isnt Always logic in the list also.
by example: a Torley is rarity 10, but produced 10.000 daggers.
but looking at the list there are lots of producers have only produced up to 1000 or less, and "only" have a rarity 8 or 9 on the scale.
So its only a list of how often certain makers poped up at the dealers within a certain timeframe.
I Always say: better have a great conditioned 5 then a bad conditioned 10
I Always prefer quality over rarity, but Hee thats just me

Cheers,
Ger

[Dean]

Hi Aechols...you have a rarity for sure..the "P" on the lower crossguard represents the SA grupe district "Pomerania" which is located Northeastern Germany...check out this list of all SA gruppe marks here along with a topical map to give you the exact location to where this dagger has been....SA Dienstdolch group markings

Your dagger fits perfectly together from what I can see and your maker is one that has the Gruppe mark that does not appear on the Gruppe mark list on the top of the forum. Congrats..your the first known owner of a Gruppe mark "P" on an Otto Stover. The only known Gruppe mark for this maker is "Nrh"..for Niederheim. ..which is a commonly seen gruppe mark with SA daggers.
I can not discern by the photo quality if the scabbard is black or dark brown. I will PM you with a near price what its worth as this maker is rarely seen. Nice dagger I hope in the future that you will be able to post better photos as we dont see these rarities too often

Thanks Larry C. So mine has a 'P' on the crossgaurd as well as the same maker
," Hartkopf". This is cool! Aechols and I have daggers from the Pomerenia area! Don't see that everyday!
Dean

[Larry C]

Thank you Gerrit for spelling that out....perfect analysis!

@ Dean yes your right,, those Gau districts up in that part of Germany was over run by the Russians when closing in on Berlin,,and thus belonged to them after the war. So The "P" gruppe mark examples that did trickle out of that Russian controlled region..are rare to find. Take a look at the Gau map on the link proviided..also "Om" and "OST" appear,,in that same area. Cool stuff. Take a look when you get a chance at this link which is at the top of the SA forum. This will show all the SA producers and all the districts that the daggers were designated to..up to date and reportedly seen.

https://www.warrelics.eu/forum/sa-di...turers-249468/

[navycollector]

Hi,
Is this list for NSKK dagers as well?

[Gastvrijheid]

I agree with Geritt, the SA rarity lists can have statistical flaws.
I also especially like the daggers of the smaller producers for quality and interest. Here are pictures of an early SA by Gebr.Torley. Later changed to conform with the new NSKK uniform regulations, so I assume that the original owner was a member of the Motor SA then transferred into the new NSKK formation.
It has the SA Gruppe mark, "Om".

[kingtiger]

I agree with Geritt, the SA rarity lists can have statistical flaws.
I also especially like the daggers of the smaller producers for quality and interest. Here are pictures of an early SA by Gebr.Torley. Later changed to conform with the new NSKK uniform regulations, so I assume that the original owner was a member of the Motor SA then transferred into the new NSKK formation.
It has the SA Gruppe mark, "Om".

That maker is one of the most interesting and rarely seen ones these days. I may have one but I have not looked at my collection in a while. I do have one of the so called "Christmas" or "Early A" SA daggers that were the first 200 that Rohm personally gave out himself to close associates before the motto was changed to one beginning with a "U". I have been out of the dagger collecting area for the last 7 years or so, concentrating on Allach porcelain. I still like SA, SS, and NSKK the best. They are easy to study and affordable still.

Mark

[Larry C]

Hi Navycollector..yes the rarity list applies to the NSKK as well...as the were the motorized branch of the SA...all of which came from the same producers of the SA dagger.

Hi Mark ..great to see you posting again Regards Larry

[navycollector]

Hi Navycollector..yes the rarity list applies to the NSKK as well...as the were the motorized branch of the SA...all of which came from the same producers of the SA dagger.

Hi Mark ..great to see you posting again Regards Larry

Thanks Larry for reply. I was wondering if someone can tell me then were I can purchase one of these McSaar lists. I bought a NSKK dagger this morning, has the maker mark of Gottsfried Muller, Herges Vogtel with Fr grupp mark.

[Larry C]

Here is the Email to the Author and Mentor.. Mike McAlvanah nmcalvanah@centurytel.net

Mention my name ..he is a mountain of SA dagger information

The dagger you picked up.. I hope you will show us on a separate thread when you get a chance...what is pleasing to hear is that the Gruppe mark is correct for this maker. Looking forward to sharing in your delight Regards Larry