Sa kraftsbootstandarte dagger

[Davidh]

Hi guys I'm picking this up later today hopefully , any opinions welcomed

[Larry C]

Hi Scrooge ..... One thing I have taken notice too and is quite obvious on this little iPhone screen I'm on until later is the dagger looks to have been open at some point. The tang nut does not natch the gold wash or nicotine patina build up on the crossguards . Hard to tell the difference at this time. The fittings also appear to not match the patina... But the dagger itself looks all from the same produced period. I can not comment on the dedication from this small screen. Wait for other input also. It does show character Regards Larry

[Davidh]

Hi Larry thanks for your reply ,from what searching I have been doing today I found this The myth about SA marine daggers .. an attempt to explain - Wehrmacht-Awards.com Militaria Forums it appears that the kraftbootstandarte had gold fittings so im hoping this has a chance fingers crossed ;-) rgds Dave

[Scout]

Hope to learn more about this dagger.

[Larry C]

Scrooge...I hope you are not paying too much for this....IMO now that Im in front of a larger screen...not all that glitters is gold. The dagger itself appears to be Late RZM type..and I can only see what is noticeable to me at the moment..but the members including myself..would like to see VERY detailed pics..and extreme closeups of the inscription. Too much flash ,,grease etc..detracting from the dagger..to see any real detail.

On thing for sure the lower scabbard fitting screws have been replaced..and again I mention the dagger has been apart..by not only the tone color minus the gold wash..but a visible plier mark on the tang nut.
Already I am at odds of the authenticity of the etch.

Yes there is some truth to what was posted on that link...but it is matter of opinion..and also what was available during the period. All has been pointed out as being Black and brown.

( Ron Weinand Quote WAF
The Ord book is the 1938 edition. The daggers in question come from the 1934 period when no standards were yet in place.
I have found 3 "Marine SAs" directly from US veterans that were all painted black during the period.
As with any origanization, much transistion occurred. Just from the different hangers used in the 33-34 period, strange things happened prior to the RZM controls.

Barry Brown UK Collector Quote: ) WAF
I believe the 1936 edition of the NSDAP Org. Buch shows the SA Marine dagger as black with silver fittings. Possibly a printer's error corrected for all later editions? However, over the years I have seen several untouched SA daggers with period black grips and scabbards. Maybe, as Ivybaust says, due to a local order or a misunderstanding, because the only early SA Marine dirk I have had was brown/silver but marked on crossguard and scabbard fitting to a SA Marine Brigade and with a member's serial#. I had this dagger about 40 years back and unfortunately can't put my hand on a picture.

So?....who is to say..but what can ONLY be found by a direct Vet bring back totally untouched. There are differing opinions on the Marine SA...and none exactly hitting the bulleye....but close.
Barry points out that the guards were Marine brigade marked!

below are a few photos from that WAF thread..which shows gold washed fittings...but with a black scabbard..take notice also of how the gold wash is worn away...making this a non nicotined dagger. Also the scabbard throat has been opened or replaced..as you can see the silver at the top of the scabbard.
Photo credit cpmill WAF

[Larry C]

WAF member wags points out that this is a Period black paint job..according to the WAF thread

[Larry C]

Lastly another photo showing a nicotined dagger which some confuse with being gold wash..event he grip eagle is gold toned
( Photo credit Joshlichty WAF

So what needs to be done and very careful research especially in the Marine SA dagger arena. This dagger can be puzzling as is the information and fokelore. IMO...I am leaning towards an all black painted example representing the Marine SA...but thats just my opinion.

Looking forward to closeup photos when you get them. Best Regards Larry

[Walkwolf]

Larry, what is your opinion on that black painted
SA from WAF ?

To me it looks awful - like somebody painted it
because they saw an SS dagger and wanted
theirs to be 'all black' as well.........

[Davidh]

Hi Larry thank you so much for all your help on this dagger I really appreciate it , I decided to leave it alone as only want unmessed with stuff in my collection cheers Dave

[gerrit]

I think all the little things like replaced screws, non virgin top nut, grease on the blade, no high detailed pics point out to just one outcome: Faked Marine SA dagger.

But there is more, i have seen the exact same etch also with a RZM code last year.
Only difference, it had plain standard scabbard fittings.
The etch/ blade itself was not that bad, only thing that stood out was the Gau marking on the guard AND having a RZM blade dagger.
Scabbard to guard fit was not perfect, so partsdagger was Obvious for me.
This etch came straight out of a German Daggers book which he had also to "proof" his dagger was the real deal.

So probably there are more to come from the KraftbootStandarte etch fakers.

Ger