Strange SMF SA Dagger From The Woodwork

[LostDutchman]

Hey guys!

This strange dagger walked into the shop this afternoon. The gentleman I purchased it from claimed his uncle brought it back from the war and gave it to him when he was a kid.

It looks like someone gold inlayed the motto. I don't think it's factory done... but most likely period done.

Thoughts appreciated.

[Wagriff]

I agree....it looks likely to have been privately but period done. Even without it, it's a nice early piece and in as found condition. The blade has tons of crossgraining to it and the grip is excellent. The 3 piece hanger is a beauty on it's own. I Like it!

[maximus71]

Wow that is a neat one, love the crossgrain as mentioned, the owner of this dagger must have taken great pride in it to have the gold inlay done.

[Frogprince]

It's not a bad looking dagger from what I think is one of the lesser seen makers not faulting the purchase. I'm also not saying that the "out of the woodwork" description is not how it happened.

So with that said from my own experience as a collector. I've had individual items and/or groups of blades that were offered to me by family members that were 100% on the money as period originals. As well as handfuls of daggers that were 100% or mostly postwar early reproductions from the 1960's or 70's, where I believe the new owners were completely clueless having no intent to deceive - they just did not know one way or the other. That also includes postwar modified chrome plated rifles, bayonets, swords and pistols, with emblems added, gold paint or leaf in serial numbers and/or markings, and some of the other things that ex-GI's did because they felt like it.

With my own assessment from the images NOT repeat NOT to slam this item - just to give folks another general perspective to use in their own assessment of what they might actually be looking at. (Also noting that with a blued(?) scabbard and SA blade usually attributed to the NSKK.) With no screws(?) and possibly a not quite perfect fit at the mouthpiece/cross guard(?) which is not uncommon (speaking generally not the case here) with especially some items brought forward for discussion that are claimed to be period as found - but (again generally speaking) with zero or bad angle pictures presented of that important aspect which oftentimes is overlooked in many discussions. And last, a brief discussion of gold inlays which to gun collectors are inlays that are actual metallic gold installed into engraved grooves underneath the edges that permanently hold the gold in place. (With the unevenness in color and depth (most admittedly not in hand) in the images here making me think more of paint than actual metallic gold.)

Again, just another perspective. Best Regards, Fred

[Wagriff]

I don't have the piece in hand, naturally, so it's difficult to say definitively, but I would say that the sheath is anodized, rather than blued. It may be just the lighting that is giving it the impression. If it were mine, I would have to hunt up a couple of screws for the throat piece, though. Not impossible, just annoying! About the coloration of the inscription, I would not be overly concerned about it. Being privately done, it could, of course, be paint, metal application or whatever method the owner had available and chose to do. Not being a professional, it is impossible to say, but it does look to be a very carefully and conscientiously done job by whoever did it. I can't imagine a GI doing it or having it done, but a person sees strange things over the years, so, bottomline being, at the end of the day, it is what it is, I guess. I like the rich burgundy color that the grip has turned to-very attractive.

[Frogprince]

I don't have the piece in hand, naturally, so it's difficult to say definitively, but I would say that the sheath is anodized, rather than blued. It may be just the lighting that is giving it the impression. If it were mine, I would have to hunt up a couple of screws for the throat piece, though. Not impossible, just annoying! About the coloration of the inscription, I would not be overly concerned about it. Being privately done, it could, of course, be paint, metal application or whatever method the owner had available and chose to do. Not being a professional, it is impossible to say, but it does look to be a very carefully and conscientiously done job by whoever did it. I can't imagine a GI doing it or having it done, but a person sees strange things over the years, so, bottomline being, at the end of the day, it is what it is, I guess. I like the rich burgundy color that the grip has turned to-very attractive.

William, Please trust me on this when I say that the whomever the old-timers were that first used the term anodized were they were clueless (and/or had a non technical translator). The original German word translates to what we call bluing, which in modern day times even some German sources now using bluing. (Anodizing is for aluminum.) Best Regards, Fred

[Wagriff]

True that. When I hear the word bluing, I always think of guns first. lol Bluing can be any one of many finishes, of course.

[Frogprince]

True that. When I hear the word bluing, I always think of guns first. lol Bluing can be any one of many finishes, of course.

I understand the connection with guns which is another interest that I have, but living in Aerospaceland I knew to a certainty what anodizing is and what it was used for. With a little side story of having more than one conversation with a top tier dagger authority (TW) in an exhibition hall with guns all around us. Challenging him to find just one knowledgeable dealer or collector in the hall who said that guns were "anodized". (Needless to say that he did not take me up on it, and would have had a fun time trying to find someone. ) With just for the record, and maybe as a memory device the original German word Brünierung - (browning) that defines what's used on the SA scabbards, also being used in that time frame for bluing. Best Regards, Fred

[JRMeda]

I've seen one other period M33 dagger long ago. The motto on it, or shall I say the dedication, was inlaid in gold very much like this one. It was a Himmler Honor dagger that came out of Denver years ago from the vet. That dagger now resides in a friends collection in NZ

[Frogprince]

As it is with myself and most folks in collecting it's a continuing education process. To that end here is a link to a Smith & Wesson website where it starts out with a question about gold inlays with the traditional: "Gold inlay is usually cut into the firearm and soft 24K gold is hammered into place." with the truly skilled artisans now I think getting much scarcer, which was not the case in Germany almost a century ago.
What's your thoughts on gold inlay?

With a link here to a website that sells "Gold Inlay Filling Kit(s)" (actually a finely divided/powdered bronze with sealer):
Gold Inlay Filling Kit for firearms

The instructions:
http://www.forsterproducts.com/clien...structions.pdf

A higher grade type of kit with actual 23K gold involving a simple four step process with an eyedropper and a small paint brush:
GOLD LODE GOLD INLAY KIT | Brownells

With my point being that really close examinations, and perhaps even some testing with solvents might be needed to see if a "gold" inlay is an actual solid metal inlay versus a paint like substance - which it turns out is now (and has been for quite a long time) very easily acquired and applied. Best Regards, Fred

Please note: This is a general observation only.