SS Dagger Blade (unmounted)

**Yellow3** · 09-02-2012, 02:03 PM

Hello,
I have attached images of an unmounted SS dagger blade. I'm unsure of the authenticity of this piece and would value expert comments. I know two owners of it, so it has been around for at least 25 years, but I do not know its origin, or if it is an early replica or a real 'leftover'. The blade has the code for Carl Eickhorn (RZM 941/37/SS) and it appears to be unfinished. The tang is c. 12 cm long. I hope the images below are OK.
Thanks in advance.

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 09-02-2012 02:03 PM

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**Larry C** · 09-02-2012, 07:12 PM

Hi Yellow,, this looks like an unfinished but yet flawed dagger that never made it out of the factory. SS daggers are known to have the billet clamp marks on the tang but I see perfectly squared edges on the tang. The etching and patination process were done all at once,, so I dont know why the Eickhorn logo is not present on this ( maker year.) The 941/37 & 941/38 ...just these 2 years. Same style but different years. Another suspect is ,"where are the threads on the end of the tang" as this IMO would of been completed first,, before the final phase of polishing. Im 51/49 on this one! Flawed from the beginning or post war,, hard to say. The missing Eickhorn logo during the mid period (1937 only ) has me leaning post war. Other opinions would be appreciated on this one. Larry

**davejb** · 09-02-2012, 07:28 PM

Is'nt this the second kind of blade with the same un finished appearance that been on the forum within the last couple of weeks ??

**Yellow3** · 09-02-2012, 07:45 PM

Hi 'davejb'
No, it isn't the same one. I have seen the other thread (I think you are refering to the one by the banned member aren't you?), but I can assure you this one has been in my hands since I receieved it from a close firned in 1999. I saw your comment on that one about lack of thread being possible on an unfinished factory piece. what do you reckon of this one, please?
Cheers, J.

**Yellow3** · 09-02-2012, 07:52 PM

...and thanks for you input Larry! Looking forward to more thoughts. I'd like to get to the bottom of this one as it's been intriguing me since I receieved it, and one UK dealer said it was OK, but I wanted to see what you guys on here think (such an excellent knowledge base on here

)

**davejb** · 09-02-2012, 08:01 PM

I have to agree with Larry, possibly a post war item, the fact that this has been cleaned abrasively, in my opinion is'nt an untouched piece, someone has been busy with an abrasive of sorts hence the numerous scratches across the grain and leaving the etched makers marks feint in the three and the RZM logo, it is also possible that it was removed from the factory in its unfinished state and later "cleaned", if this was the case a great deal of value has been lost, if not its a curio which without some form of provenance will remain so

**Yellow3** · 09-02-2012, 08:19 PM

Yes, I believe the owner before last cleaned it up to make it more visually appealing (probably not realising what harm he was doing!). I receieved it as a gift from a close friend (sadly, now deceased), who got it from the aforementioned chap, whom he knew in Sussex.

**rbminis** · 09-02-2012, 08:46 PM

The only comment that I would like to make is that the motto etch seems to be off center. Nor do I like the grinding on the tang. Maybe unfinished due to the motto etch?
Ralph.

**Larry C** · 09-02-2012, 09:46 PM

I know for sure that the center ridge line that is protruding past the blade shoulders onto the tang itself would never of made it through the square hole of the lower crossguard,, nor QC during that time,, maybe later RZMs they would not give a crap about. So IMO this would of never been used on a dagger at any time. Some sort of forcible wear would be noticeable on the over extended ridge line. I retract my statement on the Billet clamp marks and upon closer photo examination,, I do see what looks like the "Protruding ridge line" on the side of the tang.

Dave brings up a great point,, ( Daves Quote= in my opinion is'nt an untouched piece, someone has been busy with an abrasive of sorts hence the numerous scratches across the grain and leaving the etched makers marks feint in the three and the RZM logo,

When I see the center ridge line of the blade normally I would think it was due to the "in and out" from the scabbard,, but yet no visible wear on the ridge area protruding into the tang,,So?? in the enlarged photo below we see the "abrasive" Dave speaks of as the rubbing process goes across the blade lettering and you can see the wear marks on the darkened motto going across the blade. This was never in a scabbard but heavily cleaned to where all the crossgraining is gone.
So Yellow3.... Dave and Ralphs observations and myself feel that this may be a one of a kind blade that never made it out of the factory. Still period but unfinished,, or an attempt to rework a stock leftover from the early period,, hard to say. Regards Larry

** In addition the darkening would of been removed during this heavily cleaned process, as the present darkening was reapplied post war ,, more so recently**

**Frogprince** · 09-02-2012, 11:38 PM

If we are looking for opinions - most regrettably mine is that the blade is postwar junk. With the blade not forged to shape from a die, but ground to shape with a grinding wheel which is what you do if you don't own a set of dies. FP