SS dagger(Emil schmitz?)

[gerrit]

Like Larry said: buy the dagger not the story.
SS numbers are nice, but when they were applied? who can tell?
Therefore if the dagger doesnt come straight from the family or Vet, with provenance, then a numbered one will add no value to me.
Judge a dagger by its quality, not by its story.
Quality sells anytime...thats garanteed!

About you saying: i have seen nice SA daggers for 300-- euro, well M8 not where i live.....Oss for 300-- euro you buy S*&^t
The best SA daggers sold in Holland mostly came from Oss
If your interested in a good quality unmessed early SA with a killer blade, and not the put together RZM shit whats frequently seen in Marktplaats, then open you wallet, they are available from 700 till 1100 euro, depending on marker and quality.
Give me a PM, i might be able to help.

Cheers,
Ger

[Vernichtung]

that is true gerrit, but that still is dealers price. The best stuff is always more expensive. when i say 300 euro for a nice dagger don`t get me wrong, it is not like you buy them every day for that price.
They do turn up every once in a while. A good friend of my bought one for 300, but they asked him that price because they know him very well.

Same as with ss daggers, the early good ones are the expensive ones. But a oke collectible rzm SA for below 500 euro is pretty standerd IMO.

Regards, Job

[gerrit]

Job im not talking dealer prices, im talking about collector to collector, and prices of early ones, unmessed and NO RZM.
If your looking for that "once in a lifetime" dagger bargain , well M8 you will never be able to build a collection.

The great early SA daggers easily do 1000-1400 dollars looking at the stock of the big dealers.
Now a days the dollar is the euro.
Believe me i know my way around the dealers and collectors in the US, Canada, Germany and God knows elsewhere...that 300 euro early one has never crossed my way in all these years of putting in countless hours for that great SA dagger...

Other thing is: dealers NEVER give you a price that 60 % below market because "they know you".....but im only 30 years around in the collectors world, i might be off completely..

500 for a RZM is pretty standard, but i wasnt talking about RZM's, who wants them anyway?

Good luck in your search for that 300 dollar Lucky shot!

Cheers,
Ger

[Wagriff]

In my opinion, parted daggers are tourist junk and will Never be worth collecting except as a curio. They have been nowhere and have done nothing. They have zero history to them. I would never have one in my collection. They are little better than ornaments. As for numbered daggers? I have to admit that I have always liked them, but that is from the days when no one ever thought to bother about faking them. Now, as said, unless the dagger has a solid provenance to it, a number means Nothing. I could Easily look up an SS man's number from the lists and stamp it onto the guard of a normal dagger and thus enhance it's selling price and there are Far too many unscrupulous sellers that are doing just that. They find a common dagger-usually in poor condition and with the quick stamp of a number punch, they make it worth a fine conditioned dagger. Sad, how the hobby is degenerating from such sellers.

[Vernichtung]

Gerrit i was Just replieing to axium his buget. I dont collect rzm sa daggers and i pref to collect better quality aswel, but for starters a good rzm is nice.

I Am not saying the 300 euro is for killer blades on early daggers. Neither do i want to attack you on your expertise, i Am sure you know way more than i do.

Hope i didnt offend anyone^^

I can completely agree with Wagriff on the parted daggers. No history, not original and Just bad for us collectors.

I Just hope the number on de Robert Klaas is good. A shame if a dagger like that got damaged.

Regards, Job

[Larry C]

No one is offended Job.....this discussion is productive.

Sometimes discussions seem messy at times but the truth be found for those who are not faint of heart..and stay with these threads.
Regards Larry

[Chopperman]

This is a very interesting thread.
One thing that really caught my attention was the mind set of the advanced
collectors who won't waste their time with RZM daggers. As a novice, I have
experienced that first hand. I walked through a show with my SA , taking it
to a friend to look at. I had several dealers ask to look at it, thinking I was there
to sell it. All I had to do was say it was an RZM piece and they completely lost
interest. ( I get it--I am the same way in my own collecting field ) But for some
of us that don't actively collect daggers and just want a display piece or two. then
IMO rzm daggers are a very attractive alternative. But even these are becoming
price restrictive. Although for those of you that buy and sell $5000 and $10,000
daggers then my complaining about $700 RZMs is probably comical.

I do enjoy these threads as I do learn a lot to help me identify good from bad.

[Wagriff]

Not at all, Greg. But the same situation holds true in many other hobbies as well. Take coins, for example. A rare coin will be much valued and sought after while the same exact coin but with a different mint mark-hardly discernible, etc will bring very little-even though it is in finer condition. I think every collector of Any items will eventually gravitate to the rarities given enough time. Pretty much everyone begins with commoner (and hence less expensive) pieces while admiring the seldom seen and shockingly pricey stuff until the day comes when they can own one too! Plus, it gives a collector that treasure to hunt for and have show up unexpectedly on a Good day! What fun would any hobby be if it were easy to complete,hey? It's the hunt that makes it interesting!

[Chopperman]

I understand completely. As I was typing, I was thinking of my own collecting
interests and I have done that exact thing. I tend to skip right over the common
stuff and look for the hard to find variations. Like you said, it is the thrill of the hunt.

I guess the reason I added my 2 cents worth is that I knew a little that most serious collectors
do not go from the later daggers but I was a bit surprised at some of the comments.
Not that they are wrong but as you say--We all have to start somewhere.

[gerrit]

Job no offence taken here, just a different look at certain things, we all heard of stories from friends of friends etc who had that Lucky shot.....and they do come..... sometimes
What we see a lot lately is that the woodwork stream of daggers dread up slowly, and that gap has to be filled somehow.
Thats why the market is fled with partsdaggers, fakes, repro's etc.....
One reason the more to stick to early ones...you can spot history holding them in your hand, the early high build quality etc.
Early quality daggers will never let you down, they will be wanted anytime, that is also a big plus when you want to upgrade your piece, it will hold its value.
Thats one of the reasons to better save a little more and buy that good piece instead of the cheaper one with that little issue.....

Happy collecting all

Ger