SS Gift Dagger and SS Paper Knife Real or Fake

[Larry C]

Just a general question for WRF dagger collectors.

How would the engraving for the dedication to "SS-Standartenführer Helmut Schöner" on the SS dagger have normally been produced by the maker? To me the font looks very even and regular throughout all the characters to have been hand engraved where I would expect some slight variation in character shape between the same character etc.

During the period the process was called acid etching..which a template was placed on top and the acid etch process would eat into the steel leaving some visible rough edges,depending upon the producer of how well it was applied. I can not detect this in these photos..as it will not enlarge enough to view it closely. A in hand inspection would be the best result for this.....................THEN!!!! there is a laser etch process applied today by fakers duplicating this process with no visible rough edges..only perfect edges...this must be seen through a computer enhance microscope available for about $100 US to see the the detail of the etch.

This etch above in these photos are difficult to discern..between the 2. I can not comment on something I can not see up close..but a secondary approach would be from the German script gentlemen who read write and decipher German text of those times. IMO this text is more modern. Regards Larry

Bionics at their best......I would like to see vagina spring photos as I have never encountered such mechanisms which sound quite trapping and hurtful.........BUT I think maybe the term Jule..was looking for might of been "Virgin Springs"........the metal type seen inside scabbards

[matty01]

If we had a sticky for vagina springs it would read Sticky:Vagina springs.

[StefanM]

During the period the process was called acid etching..which a template was placed on top and the acid etch process would eat into the steel leaving some visible rough edges,depending upon the producer of how well it was applied. I can not detect this in these photos..as it will not enlarge enough to view it closely. A in hand inspection would be the best result for this.....................THEN!!!! there is a laser etch process applied today by fakers duplicating this process with no visible rough edges..only perfect edges...this must be seen through a computer enhance microscope available for about $100 US to see the the detail of the etch.

This etch above in these photos are difficult to discern..between the 2. I can not comment on something I can not see up close..but a secondary approach would be from the German script gentlemen who read write and decipher German text of those times. IMO this text is more modern. Regards Larry

Bionics at their best......I would like to see vagina spring photos as I have never encountered such mechanisms which sound quite trapping and hurtful.........BUT I think maybe the term Jule..was looking for might of been "Virgin Springs"........the metal type seen inside scabbards

I must admit the script style font used for inscription to the SS officer looks a modern application to me, but I also have to profess my ignorance in dagger markings.

[matty01]

I am looking at a dedication for an event on the 2.10.37 so in other words nearly 1938. Why is it on a model 33 dagger and not a 36?????????

[Frogprince]

You guys are having waay, waay, too much fun with what the machine translation did. Which is not fault of Julfest38 and “mouthpiece” is how I’ve translated period German documents - and I am not going to say another word.

Besides what has been commented on like the badly fitted case etc. - the purported “H. H. Letter Opener” has a whitish area at the junction of the blade and the tang and it really needs some very closeup pictures of that, and the cross guards, and inscription (etc). With the collecting landscape littered with comparable items that even some “name” dealers fail to recognize are postwar fakes and continue to keep on selling. And as an additional comment for the “inscribed SS dagger”, a new looking blade mated to a well aged worn and rusty scabbard would also give me a reason to want to do a very close examination. With both a supposed “gold fill” (and black) used to cover up recent work with a number of various and sundry fakes. Regards, Fred

[Larry C]

You beat me to it Fred..as the Gilting has also been poorly applied into areas of scratching. In 3 photos I have provided in green color....points to these areas. One most noticeable closest to the producers logo is that spidering we see from time to time..when age creeps in and causes that blade cancer. This one is covered in Gold. IMO poor attempt to create something that never was....whats really sad is the SS dagger is good....................not anymore

Neither is a good investment....stay with collecting "V" springs ..you will get your moneys worth

[matty01]

Im gonna have to learn to shout louder.....Im growing a beard at the back of the room here

[Wagriff]

You have a very valid point, Matty. Yes, the 1933's were still worn after 1936 and the Chained switch, but only the enlisted men wore the 1933 after this time. Certainly, a Standartenfuhrer would have had the upgraded 36.

[matty01]

My point taken thankyou Wagriff! Im still looking for the dam microphone about here if you find it laying about send it my way

[Frogprince]

The point that was made is noted, and at a minimum IMO it was a parts piece of indeterminate origin. An item that is now for sale on a German website for the equivalent of $ 2840.00.

And then I found these little bits of information:

There was a Helmut Schöne who was an SS-Sturmbannführer (12-10-33/7-1-35) in the SS-Abschnitt IV Braunschweig. And then an SS-Obersturmbannführer (7 Jan 1935 - 21 Mar 1938).

Who was subsequently brought before an SS Court and charged with habitual drunkenness and the misuse of service transport. Found guilty he was demoted in rank to Stumbannführer 1-7-1939 with seniority from 7-7-1939. And I don't think that any further comment is needed. Regards, Fred