SS Kettendolch opinions please

[Walkwolf]

So who is the maker of this fine piece.........?

[Larry C]

No maker Steve......these originally were made that way..which may be a result of Competing firms..and under RZM control to keep an anonymity of them. Some of these blades can be identified through their motto etch pattern. Yet it still does not point a finger towards a producer..only if it was etcheed by the producer..or subcontrcted out to be etched. One such etch contractor was Max Schmal...yet this does not prove this particular blade. Also taken into consideration that Blade blanks were also supplied to distributors and producers. One such blade blank supplier was Adlerwerk. Yet there were numerous subcontractors who also made scabbards grips crossguards etc.
There is no precise reason why the producers logo were left off the blade except for the theory I stated above..and also by Chained SS collectors. Regards Larry

[Walkwolf]

Thanks Larry. Not marked in abundance like SA's.........

[gerrit]

Larry thx for your contribution, here are my thoughts:

Wittmann stated: We do on occasion see original SS daggers with unmarked blades having Gau stamped crossguards. This is thought to be attributable to using up existing stores.

and now comes into question: where did the Gau marking took place?
Have they been applied at the Gau distribution center or at the factory?
Where did the SS daggers got their district stamps?

If the daggers where stamped at the Gau & District distribution center then these dagger are most likely put together post war souvenir daggers.
IMO thats what they are, for sure a couple of now known existing SS daggers with marked guards does not make them legal i think.
Put together in the first few years after the war even created storys like: Original vet bring back.....
I think the stock theory isnt that solid: its very easy to re-grind that lower crossguard and remove that Gau mark, we talk about nickel parts so at a factory this could be done easily and quick.
Even after 1942 SS regulations were strickt, they even executed people in the last days of the war when regulations ordered that.

I think SS regulations didnt allowed a dagger like that being issued with a Gau marked guard.

Ger

[Frogprince]

Something that I've been tracking and collecting information on for years, I'm not a big fan of these daggers myself even though some collectors/dealers seem to want to make them an 'official' accepted variant. With some of the highlights of multiple forums/discussions being: The Gau marks were applied in de-centalized locations with a number of legitimate accepted variables (for SA daggers). That said, there is a period photograph of what is reported as SS daggers with an inspection team present surrounded by daggers, with one member seen performing a stamping operation. There is also period documentation which goes to the heart of the matter which is that the 2/3 copper nickel silver was to be no longer available for non-military uses. And later also a reduction in nickel as seen for example with the (in the U.S.) misnamed "Type I" heavily nickel plated chain sets with the same early process unmarked heavy plating cast iron/or zinc crossguards contrasted with the later so-called (in the U.S.) Type II in steel that is very lightly nickel plated (BTW: the latest book IMO has the timing sequence wrong for the "Type C"). I also have a photo library of the "Gau" types with cracked, chipped, shaved, and repaired etc. wood grips, often with badly fitted crossgguard to scabbard mouthpiece fitted daggers that somehow escaped the attention of both factory employees and any period inspections that the SS might have had done before accepting and paying for a shipment. Much less any SS man who purchased the much more expensive M 1936 (with the now disgraced/purged SA Gau markings present on the cross guard). With one fairly well known (U.S.) restorer of daggers acknowledging that he personally has removed quite a few of the offending marks. As they say this is just the "tip of the iceberg" IMO. So I will close with a catastrophic image of crossguards disintegrating and falling off but leaving a still relatively intact chain set, also having images of less catastrophic failures at different stages. Which is not to say that there are not some vigorous defenders of the "Gau" daggers by owners and/or dealers of same. But to me with the "in hand" ones I've seen they were just parts daggers to be set aside - while I looked for something that I was going to be happy with now and in the future. Best Regards, Fred