Yes I heard of both versions, I was referring to angolias book on swords of germany, silver for nco, bronze for officer, but also have read they were all silvered to start to start with, if anyone would know ir would be witty.
Yes I heard of both versions, I was referring to angolias book on swords of germany, silver for nco, bronze for officer, but also have read they were all silvered to start to start with, if anyone would know ir would be witty.
Hi guys, I must get a copy of that book as I didn't know that. That would answer why the nco's always tend to hold there silvering better too.
But I agree the copper does look a nice contrast!
Anyway sorry to de-rail the thread, its about the sword which I happen to agree has had a fair bit of tinkering so my verdict, save ur money.
However, the motto and SS pommel seem to look to have been added a long while ago but at the same time. Its not accurate or consistant one could argue it was done by hand.
Naturally I would think it would be a scrummy trying to boost the value of a tired looking blade however one the other hand an engraver would also argue you need a sound surface to engrave so the engraving was on there long before the rust.
But that's throwing a spanner in the works, as I say, id personally swerve it purely down to it not looking nice.
Last edited by matty01; 10-20-2013 at 12:35 PM.
I can add to this from Wittmanns SS reference on pg 472. below.....by maximus71
Most collectors are familiar with the 2 different designs of the Police Degen. The officer model featured an Ornate Hilt cap, wire wrapped grip and nickeled scabbard throat and drag fittings.
The NCO Model differed in the hilt cap design, lack of grip wire and a simple drag stell built into the lower shell. In addition, while the officer police grip insignia was more ornate and usually featured a painted or oxidized black background. The Insignia used in the NCO grip was a simple stamped design of aluminum. similar to the bayonet grip eagle. The officer grip eagle was stipulated to be of a light metal with a silvered finish,,but most examples are of a stamped copper having a silver finish. (( More often than not,,the silver finish has disappeared due to mishandling,, improper storage..or excessive cleaning.))
The resultant condition has led to the thoroughly false assertion that these copper grip eagles indicated issue to an officer in the fire fighting services. These was no differentiation in the style or materials used for the swords worn by the fire dept or the ordinary uniformed police. All police and fire fighting services were issued one style degen. ( Thomas Wittmann pg 472 " Collecting the Dress Swords and Daggers od the German SS" )
Now first I would highly recommend the purchase of this exhaustive study into the SS edged weapon subject.
Also my observations that would support what Tom Wittmann has stated.....the same silvering process which also has disappeared on some "Late RZM SA dagger examples" also a few have been seen on Chained SS examples leaving the copper finish exposed to the eye. More so with the Late SA examples..than later SS examples. The use of "pot metal" was more frequently seen towards the end of the late period.
The Copper eagles signified no level of rank status..as the National eagle in metal form in all branches of the Third Reich were Nickel Silver or Silver plated.
below is an SS example by collector Barry Brown and an SA example by Stu W. from the WAF
bottom line....call it a cheap application of silvering..as what we see on the paint jobs of cars today. sadly on these historical peices there were no recalls on silver plating.Regards Larry
It is not the size of a Collection in History that matters......Its the size of your Passion for it!!- Larry C
One never knows what tree roots push to the surface of what laid buried before the tree was planted - Larry C
“The farther back you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see.” - Winston Churchill
bottom line....call it a cheap application of silvering..as what we see on the paint jobs of cars today. sadly on these historical peices there were no recalls on silver plating. Regards Larry
Very imformative Larry. Something ive never considered but from what im reading you think they were already seeing signs of the copper finish coming through throughout the period?
Sadly, this happens often, people take nice WW2 German militaria and decide they are going to "shine it up" and turn it into something SS. or even a famous Army unit. The engraving is poorly done (as so pointed out by previous members). People ought to just leave their items the way they get them, instead of trying to make them better. You have what you have. Don't try and put one over on people that are newer to the hobby. People work hard for their money. I hate when I see things like this. Sorry about the luck, man. If you ever have any questions always ask LarryC or Ryan B. Ryan has helped me a few times. Best of luck on your continuing search.
Dont worry about derailing the thread, I dont think the OP even read this far, none the less say thank you for our help. but anyway, I believe the eagle study has been cleared up very well, at least something good came out of this lol
i didnt bought this sword... when i saw Police sword that showed me Wargriff i decide to find better one..
thanks all for help
Jacob
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