Struck in the back of the head

[rottenfuhrer-nl]

that wasnt the collectable time,it was during war that means to stay alive at any meassures
the germ got dilivered to the familie after the war
after the war a helmet wasnt that valualble only a terrible memory

[SteveR]

This is a very touchy subject indeed. It is fact that all sides have committed murder in one way or another. Whether it be a single life or by the thousands. This thread is about an individual whose grave was dug up, disrespected and robbed. This poor soul who has had his final? resting place invaded may not have ever hurt a person in his life. Serving in the Nazi military did not necessarily mean that he was a nazi.

Example: I live in the U.S. and back in the mid 80's i worked with a kind gentleman for a few years and we got to talking at lunch time one day. He told me his stories of when he served in the Nazi wehrmacht until he was captured by U.S. troops in late 1944. He ended up in a concentration camp in St. Louis. Anyway he told me that many of the solders who fought along side of him did not even believe in Nazism and that if they resisted enlistment that imprisonment or death was the punishment. Talking about not believing in nazi germany was punishable by death so soldiers did in secret and were careful as to who they were talking to.

So you see not every german was a nazi.

Ty

Your description of a POW camp at St. Louis as a concentration camp is at best very uninformed sir and a poor choice of words.
There was a POW camp at Camp Crowder Missouri about 30 miles from where I live. The former German POW's I have spoken with over the years have told me that they had more freedom as a U.S. POW than they ever had as a citizen in Nazi Germany.

[John Brandon]

Seeing as we're on the subject....... I got offered today, a Grave marker from 1940, with history(sort of) It was stunningly carved with a huge EK, and the guy's Regt, date of death ect: I did get it!....... But then had a change of heart. It was spooky, and I know they were only temp, but i felt like I had someones soul, so i got rid Did I do the right thing? I dunno, but my conscience is clear

[Paul D]

John,

I had the chance of a Wooden SS Grave marker a couple of years ago but declined iniatially because i couldn't see my wife wasnting it in the house, then when i had athink i thought it wasn't the sort of thing i'd want to be starring at in my study either , spooky indeed

By the way how did Leeds go today ?

[John Brandon]

Too right Phil, there's collecting and there's morbid collecting, I prefer the former

And Paul....Leeds was ok, not many people about due to football I think, but still had a good crack Had a chat with MC, sorry you missed it

[Nifartachi]

Seems to me that you are forgetting that STALIN killed more Russians by execution than the Germans ever killed in combat.
There is no excuse to ROB THE DEAD, can't get any lower than that, equel and dispicable as molesting children.
Dig up Stalin and the other KGB and Commisars murderers of Russians, and Rob them!

Well, Dick, before Auschwitz, was the Gulag, and also after Auschwitz, there still was the Gulag... but history is just the winners point of view.

Because of this thread, I will never look at a helmet lid the same way again!

[ToxicGas]

Because of this thread, I will never look at a helmet lid the same way again!

-I know what you mean! It's very interesting, reading all of this, as I've thought about these things for a long time. At what point does relic collecting become grave robbing? Is it wrong to own a helmet riddled with bullet holes and shrapnel? If so, isn't owning a gun (deactivated or otherwise) from a war equally as wrong for it has potentially ended lives? Should we consider such helmets, as belongings to fallen men, or artefacts of important world history? Is it ok to display them in a museum but not to personally collect, or is it wrong all together?

I was recently considering purchasing a Wehrmacht stahlhelm punctured with bullet holes and torn open badly, with the belief that as long as it is treated with respect and displayed apropriately, it acts as a more meaningful memorial than a statue ever could. I have visited a WW1 memorial monument before, built with a stone that when rained on, appears red as if blood drips from it- It was designed this way intentionally. Sounds macabre, but I believe that we should not only remember those who have fallen, but the horror of war too. People can't learn from censored, sterile and selective history.

I'm still undecided on a lot of these issues, those are just some thoughts I'd like to put forward. One thing I do believe is that there is a great difference between battlefield-dug items found seperate from any remains, (or in a dump from the clear-up) and those actually taken from the bodies simply to sell. But unless you found it yourself, how will you know?

[ToxicGas]

*To add to my last post*

-I realise I've focused mainly on relics that indicate fatality- you may own a helmet recovered from a battlefield that's perfectly intact, but it's previous owner could still have been killed. You don't know this though, so is it ok to own it? Would it bother you that a relic medal you own may once have been in possession of a KIA soldier, only to have been thrown in a contemporary dump where it was later later discovered and sold to you?

Sorry in advance for any repetition in there and for my uncoordinated writing, I'm tired. Once again, just provoking discussion.

[appie]

Well, I have a British WWI gravestone in my livingroom, has been there for years. In proud and dearest memory of our son it reads. It got broke at a cemetary in the Flanders one day during the mowing of the gras. It got thrown out as they made a new one, so I took it. It started to get even more morbid when I found a human jaw with teeth near a fieldgrave that was ploughed through, and added that to my collection, together with some very personal items that belonged to a soldier. Some very strange things started to happen in my house (believe it or not) and it scared my wife very much. She got so scared that she didn't want to be in the house alone; showers starting to run while nobody was upstairs, television changing channel, things disapaering or falling from the wall, even the cat was terrified and was staring at the vitrine for hours with big eyes. I laughed about it all, untill one night I was on the computer and something very, very scary happened in the room I was in. It scared me so much that I moved all the items that I thought could be causing this to the garden, and got rid of them the next morning. The human remains were picked up by somebody of the grave-service, a reburried. Now its quite, and nothing has happend for a while and my wife can sleep again.
Now I'm not sure to believe in ghosts or things like that, but I had taken something into my house what made some very scary weird things happen, and I'm glad its gone!

[Nifartachi]

That's... how should I say it? I'm glad we have these guys: