Struck in the back of the head

**ironcross1** · 04-22-2009, 05:09 AM

Hi Dick , nothings to small to read , no disrespect ,it just doesnt look to me like its ever been in the ground and looks to have very little wear at all , i may be totaly wrong here , thats why i thought real close up pics would be good , cheers Raymond

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 04-22-2009 05:09 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

Dick · 04-22-2009, 05:22 AM

The bottom was cut off by the man that brought it to the show, so it would fit his suit case. The two pieces were held together by screws that have been in it for quite ahwile, as they are well rusted. Where the threaded end of the screws went into the other wood, it has the typical eaten away black wood look in the holes, made during the rusting process of the screws decaying. The wood is hard as wood peker lips oak.

**Friedrich-Berthold** · 04-23-2009, 10:49 PM

I am returning this to prominence at the request of colleague Dick of the great state of Massachusetts

Dick · 04-24-2009, 12:10 AM

Thanks FB.
The wooden grave markers and how they were used, can br seen in various photo's of the war time SS cemetaries. The the bottom of the crosses obviously never touched to ground, they stood up off the ground, at about the distance this one was cut off at.
I am not going to post any close ups, simply because, by next year a profusion of detailed fakes will appear from the east.
Same reason I won't show the back of a real tux skull ribbon bar, no fakers have made that correctly, "yet"!
For those who asked me to post the picture of this mans grave marker, there it is, anyone have an idea about him? Obviously he was killed about 8 weeks after Normandy.
All assistance is appreciated.

**ironcross1** · 04-24-2009, 02:57 AM

by Friedrich-Berthold

I am returning this to prominence at the request of colleague Dick of the great state of Massachusetts

Hi guys , i dont realy understand what you are saying here , could you clarify you message for me. Also im surprized that after requests to see pics of the marker there has been no other comments .cheers Raymond

Dick · 04-24-2009, 03:16 AM

I mentioned that I had a wooden cross taken from the grave of a young SS man, 17 years old, that it to was almost burned up by a French farmer, but some how didn't and another Frenchman brought it to the states in his luggage.
Someone asked for close up pics, as they seemed to think what he sees in the picture can't be correct, as it doesn't look like it was burried in the ground. Well of cource the part shown was not burried in the ground, it was standing up about the ht. that most all markers do, so they can be seen and read. The bottom part was cut off by the Frenchman that brought it to the early years ago MAX show, and he cut it off to fit in his suit case. The normal length of thes markers is about 3 ft. longer, and are set into the ground just like fense posts are.
I thought it strange to ask about having a close up to see if it's authentic because there was no sign of it being used in the ground, and say nothing about the cross or what I placed it on, all in the effort to do so by request and treated by respect. I also can't understand why that item I placed it on was not questioned, instead of why there was no wood rot on an obviously cut off grave marker.

Dick · 04-24-2009, 03:45 AM

by Dick

I put the grave marker on something I think is appropriate and hopefully somebody is able to identify this young man.

Moderators, can this picture and search request be some how kept as a sight project, and not lost in the bowels of all the other posts? I think it a well worth the effort nice thing to do.

**ironcross1** · 04-24-2009, 09:14 AM

by Dick

I mentioned that I had a wooden cross taken from the grave of a young SS man, 17 years old, that it to was almost burned up by a French farmer, but some how didn't and another Frenchman brought it to the states in his luggage.
Someone asked for close up pics, as they seemed to think what he sees in the picture can't be correct, as it doesn't look like it was burried in the ground. Well of cource the part shown was not burried in the ground, it was standing up about the ht. that most all markers do, so they can be seen and read. The bottom part was cut off by the Frenchman that brought it to the early years ago MAX show, and he cut it off to fit in his suit case. The normal length of thes markers is about 3 ft. longer, and are set into the ground just like fense posts are.
I thought it strange to ask about having a close up to see if it's authentic because there was no sign of it being used in the ground, and say nothing about the cross or what I placed it on, all in the effort to do so by request and treated by respect. I also can't understand why that item I placed it on was not questioned, instead of why there was no wood rot on an obviously cut off grave marker.

Dick , i do respect the fact that you have shown you grave marker to us as i and others requested , and i fully understand your frustration at my reponce to it , but these forums are for collectors and interested parties to share there pieces with members for viewing and disscssion. Once you posted your piece i thought that was open for disscussion as nothing was said to the contourey. Now i may be totaly wrong in my opinon of the marker ,and if i am i would be happy to addmit that , but im giveing my assement purly at what i see and have read as a forum member . Firstly i find it strange that a frenchman would fly all the way to the states to sell a grave marker , and that he would cut the end off it , devalueing , just so it would fit in his suit case . secondly that the farmer burned all the others and this one survived . im not saying that i dont belive this happened to you as you said it did , i just dont believe the frenchmans story . I asked for close up photos not because i thought it had no evidence of it being in the ground , but because to me it does not look like an item that is 65 years old and must have spent some of that time outside in all types of weather . I also have issues with the way in which the letters and numbers are written , and the overall condition of the paint work , i felt close up pictures would have helped to colliberate my thoughts , or dissmis them as being wrong .At the end of the day if you are happy with it then thats great , these are just my thoughts and opinons on what i have seen and read , as a forum member , cheers Raymond

**Adrian Stevenson** · 04-24-2009, 11:18 AM

Hi Dick, I will see what I can find out for you about this man. He should be on the German War Graves database. I will get a friend to search it for you. I seem to have very little luck whenever I try.

Cheers, Ade.

**Paul D** · 04-24-2009, 12:27 PM

Dick,

I must admit this piece is ringing alarm bells with me if it's from Normandy , SS NEA 5 ?

Nachrichten Ersatz Abteilung 5 ? The signals training unit for the Wiking Division , at that time Wiking was in combat East of Warsaw many miles from Normandy ? and it's training units were not fighting in Normandy.

Plus 1940 on the cross instead of 1939 ??

For me at the moment i don't like it,

regards

Paul