A few concerns I have are.
(1) there are 2 holes in the tang but only one hole in the handle, what’s the other for?
(2) what is the puzzle piece looking stamp
(3) what period is this sword, and is it original or pieced together?
(4) is the blade machined or handmade
(5) what is a Chinese puppet govt sword
(6)rough estimated value
Thank you guys so far
Poin (may I call you Poin?),
(1) there are 2 holes in the tang but only one hole in the handle, what’s the other for?
- More than 1 hole means that the blade was re-mounted to a new handle. You'll see this often in older blades that were re-fitted during the war with military fittings. In fact, you'll often see 2 or 3 holes on really older blades. During their lifespan, their original fittings were damaged, or the sword was sold and the new owner had it re-fitted.
(2) what is the puzzle piece looking stamp
- I have seen this stamp before, and wrote the blade off as a Chinese fake. It still could be. Hard to say.
(3) what period is this sword, and is it original or pieced together?
- I believe this blade and it's fittings came from WWII era. Were they pieced together - who can really say. The scabbard (saya) seems to be far lower quality than the rest of the fittings. The fuchi and kabutogane seem to come from an actual Japanese gunto, but the chuso (latch button) is clearly not. These kind of swords are usually hard to make a definitive call about. Simply because there were swords made in occupied lands for local troops who were fighting along side the Japanese, supporting their side. Google Java or PETA forces.
(4) is the blade machined or handmade
- All I can say is that it wasn't made by Japanese standards. I don't know how the Occupied lands craftsmen made their blades.
(5) what is a Chinese puppet govt sword
- When the Japanese occupied a foriegn land (Germans did this too) they established local government to rule in cooperation with the Japanese. Manchuoku, if memory serves, was the name of the Japanese controlled Chinese government. A quich google search would give tons of info on that. Each of them, China, Korea, Java, Indonesia, etc modeled their uniforms and equipment, when possible, after the Japanese. They did this with sword too, looking as similar as possible to the Japanese fittings and style.
(6)rough estimated value
- All over the place. I haven't priced these, assuming it is sold and bought as an Occupied lands sword, it would depend if you found a guy who collects these (they are out there, some of them frequent these forums). DaveR might have a guesstimate for you on that.
Hmmm, interesting. I appreciate you taking the time to answer all those questions, Bruce, very insightful.
When you say a Chinese fake blade, you’re meaning that stamp is Chinese but the blade was not crafted by Chinese?
There were, and are, a few countries where fake Japanese WWII swords were/are being made. During the war, even Australian troops were making fake swords. Most fakes I've heard are being made in China. I'm vague on who the other countries are. I know Poland has some high grade Type 95 fakes being made. I seem to remember India is cranking some out. But the point is they are making cheap replicas of collectable items. WWII collectors are plagued by this in all areas of collecting.
I'm still leaning toward a legitimate Collaborator sword, though. Fakes, as far as I've seen, try to look like Japanese swords, not Chinese. The fact that this has Chinese emblems, to me, says "collaboration forces."
That menuki’s shape resemble me the “mum” put on type 38 and 99 rifles... which is a stylized imperial kikumon.
It’d truly be a gift and a curse to be able to touch an item and see its entire life story. Would definitely come in handy with items like these.
It does resemble the mum design however it’s got a lot more lines than a mum, a little less uniform too.
Regarding value though is there any chance of it being worth $400+?
So a remounted Chinese Collaborator's sword? What was it then, originally, before getting a second hole to take on a copy of Japanese style fittings?
The stamp looking like キ is gibberish and the Menuki is no mum. Bruce's comment seemed reasonable by starting out saying that he had seen the stamping on modern Chinese fakes, therefore he thought the blade was a fake, but somehow the conclusion is that it's a legitimate Chinese collaborator's blade? You lost me, how did you accomplish that U-turn in logic?
So just double checking if I were to take a wire pad and some oil and rub out some of that marking and what appears to be another marking on the other side of the tang, that would devalue the sword, that’s what I read online, something about the natural rust and the color of the rust help to determine its value.
Yes, just NEVER clean the tang(nakago) on a Japanese sword. Or in this case an 'Ersatz' sword or maybe a fake. Im not sure if that would decrease the value for this sword. But on real, confirmed Japanese swords you can read alot of information only by looking at the tang, and if that is cleaned up it can possibly really devalue the sword.by PoinsettA
If it is being offered to you at $400, walk away. Whatever it is, because it is not really identifiable, you would never get that money back on a resale. If you have paid that, you have my sympathy, some lessons in collecting come expensive, and we have all done it in the past.
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