WWII Japanese Army Samurai Sword 1944

**Darren Lillington** · 07-07-2009, 02:03 PM

Hey Steve, i know it doesn't really matter in this day and age but i thought i mention that in Ancient Japan it was seen as a great disrespect to hang one's swords in that way.

In times of peace and as a sign of respect one would hang their swords blade up with the Tsuka (handle) on the left of the rack/stand).

Just thought i would point that out

Again, beautiful Shin gunto Mate. -

Darren.

**Darren Lillington** · 07-07-2009, 02:42 PM

Hi Nifartachi,

Without hijacking this thread, it is known that at the end of the war in the Pacific, US forces occupied Japan, orders were issued to disarm Japan literally meaning anything considered to be a weapon were confiscated, and many sadly were destroyed.

Initially there was no clear distinction made regarding the types of weapons to be confiscated, so everything was taken, and unfortunately many valuable swords, some ranked as national treasures were destroyed or were brought to the US by returning servicemen. Most if not all were over time bought by collectors, some were given back to japan and can be seen in Museums.

**SteveR** · 07-07-2009, 07:21 PM

A black scabbard usually indicates Imperial Japanese Navy.

**Ty Revelo** · 07-07-2009, 08:05 PM

by SteveR

A black scabbard usually indicates Imperial Japanese Navy.

That is correct. I once owned one similar to yours. I was a kid about 13 years old and sold it for $25

It was brought back by my father who served in the Pacific theater. Can you say stupid?

That sword you have is very nice

rgds, Ty

**Darren Lillington** · 07-08-2009, 02:47 AM

Although quite rare there were a small number of formal Shin gunto's made for naval officers but were a Tachi type blade not katana and although still machine made they were given an Anchor Stamp on the nakago.

The Saya on these are not black but either a bluish black or brown lacquered over Samekawa.

The most common sword issued to Naval officers was the Kyu gunto, these were influenced by european sabers and were much fancier. These did have a black painted leather saya, the imperial army and cavalry also used these early on, mostly during the russo japanese war but again were made different to navel ones.

There was also yet another sword that was only issued to Naval officers known as the Kai Gunto. These looked similar to the army's shin gunto but were fancier, Samekawa covered saya which were lacquered black or dark blue or black lacquered saya without samekawa(rayskin) and these also had the naval Anchor stamp on the nakago.

I still believe Steve's showato to have originally been tan or light brown as this is a 1944 Army issued Shin gunto, so it would not be black. Just my 2 cents.

Cheers

-

Darren

**SteveR** · 07-08-2009, 05:03 AM

by Seibei

Hey Steve, i know it doesn't really matter in this day and age but i thought i mention that in Ancient Japan it was seen as a great disrespect to hang one's swords in that way.

In times of peace and as a sign of respect one would hang their swords blade up with the Tsuka (handle) on the left of the rack/stand).

Just thought i would point that out

Again, beautiful Shin gunto Mate. -

Darren.

Well we are at war in Afghanistan at present so Steve's presentation is correct.
Just thought I would mention that.
Steve

**SteveR** · 07-08-2009, 05:17 AM

by Seibei

Although quite rare there were a small number of formal Shin gunto's made for naval officers but were a Tachi type blade not katana and although still machine made they were given an Anchor Stamp on the nakago.

The Saya on these are not black but either a bluish black or brown lacquered over Samekawa.

The most common sword issued to Naval officers was the Kyu gunto, these were influenced by european sabers and were much fancier. These did have a black painted leather saya, the imperial army and cavalry also used these early on, mostly during the russo japanese war but again were made different to navel ones.

There was also yet another sword that was only issued to Naval officers known as the Kai Gunto. These looked similar to the army's shin gunto but were fancier, Samekawa covered saya which were lacquered black or dark blue or black lacquered saya without samekawa(rayskin) and these also had the naval Anchor stamp on the nakago.

I still believe Steve's showato to have originally been tan or light brown as this is a 1944 Army issued Shin gunto, so it would not be black. Just my 2 cents.

Cheers

-

Darren

I see nothing to believe that the scabbard has been repainted. It looks original to me.
So we have differing opinions.
Steve

**Kilroy Was Here** · 07-08-2009, 06:09 AM

Hi Darren, thank you for all the great extra info on my sword. I will notate and keep w/ other info paperwork. I do not keep sword in the position in pic, it was just put on stand after taking pics of it a few years ago. It is an old pic. It's correct now.

It seems you know quite a bit on swords. Yes, the saya should be black, and do not know who did it, or why it is black. It's old paint though. I do not see any traces of tan paint. The latch mates up and works perfect to lock in place, and it seems like the orig. saya for the sword? Maybe it had a leather cover at one time.
Deadly yes, it is a very strong thick blade, you are right. I do not like knives and swords in warfare, or in general in a fight. Much more psychologically frightening. I would much rather be shot, than have one of these used.

Do you know what the heart shape ring fitting signifies or means on the belt? What would have been hooked there? The hanger fittings would be on the left, so what is this on the right, maybe some place to tie a pistol lanyard to, or?...... I am looking for pics of the seppa I took already. They are all marked with matching numbers. I will post them when found, if you and others would like to see them.

Regards, Steve

**Darren Lillington** · 07-08-2009, 06:11 AM

Well we are at war in Afghanistan at present so Steve's presentation is correct.
Just thought I would mention that.
Steve

Like i said, in this day and age these traditions are irrelevant but coming from years or studying and collecting Nihonto and the traditions of the sword and its etiquette its a habit of mine to bring things like this up lol. It was just the done thing as a sign of respect to hang ones sword with the tsuka to the left.

Although i only collect Imperial Japanese militaria and relics and have spent and great deal of time researching and reading on the subject i never claim to know it all.

We never stop learning in this hobby and i am never ashamed to admit if i am wrong or mistaken but im certain i am right. Shin gunto's of all types (perhaps besides the NCO's Gunto) were never issued with a black saya, there is but one example i cant think of, a number of years ago i came across an NCO shin gunto witch i believe was dated late 1944 that had a black saya.

NCO Guntos were very very poorly made in order to cut costs and ease manufacturing. The tsuka was entirely made of bronze that was made to resemble the traditional tsuka made of wood, samekawa and ito.

Regards-

Darren.

**Kilroy Was Here** · 07-08-2009, 06:16 AM

by JimboCymru

Wow Steve, that's a beauty!
It's in really great shape, and looks great in that little display you have setup.

I've got a small Japanese collection myself, mainly Hinomaru flags (3), headwear and medals. I was reading a thread about Jap battle flags and stains and actually had a peek at my collection under UV. Geez, I hope bloodstains don't show up as yellow ....

Jimbo

Hello Jimbo!! Thank you. I also saw the post I think you are talking of, with the nice framed battle flag, and swords on the wall.

Good luck with the UV stuff, hope your items are OK.

Regards, Steve