SA buckles marker up for diskussion

**yellow12** · 07-01-2011, 11:21 AM

Hello gentlemen ,

here new better pictures for help .......

**Espenlaub Militaria** · 07-01-2011 11:21 AM

We also buy and trade your items and full collections!

**yellow12** · 07-01-2011, 11:32 AM

by aechols83

Of course I defer to David here as the forum’s resident authority on the SA and also as my “SA mentor”

I must admit though that to my eyes all four of the buckles Markus has shown share the same roundel design. I think they may appear slightly different by way of the materials, wear and the particular photo images & angles. David, I agree with Markus that images 5, 7 & 8 are the eagles in question and the “grained” or “pebbled” background behind the swastika is also seen on my 2-piece brass example. The comparative eagle design you have shown in 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 & 9 has, in my view, more of a “cocked” head, a slightly less open beak and a pronounced eye. This latter design is one that I have come to loosely associate with Paulmann & Crone.

Best,
Adam

Dear Adam,

i agree with your opinions about P&C . I have it in my collection .

**aechols83** · 07-01-2011, 12:05 PM

Markus,

While all four buckles clearly have the same design and are all of 1-piece construction, I think it is probably difficult for anyone to say with absolute certainty that the maker is Schröder beyond the one marked as such. Again, I think it's very plausible given everything that's been discussed. I personally like and often obsessively seek out definitive answers but have had to resign myself to the reality that this is not always achievable. Perhaps collecting these relics of history is a bit like the practice of science in that the closest we may come to a "fact" is a very well-supported hypothesis...a theory.

Best,
Adam

**aechols83** · 07-01-2011, 06:57 PM

Here are some images that I think will be of interest showing another example of the aluminum type of this pebbled SA school buckle. This piece displays the associated Paulmann & Crone design and is clearly marked RZM M1/78 for PuC. David, interesting that your aluminum example with this design does not have "ears." Does your example bear hard to see markings? It would otherwise seem a match.

Best,
Adam

**aechols83** · 07-01-2011, 07:14 PM

Upon a few moments of reflection, although I am certain the above buckle is genuine I am not sure I have ever seen any buckle marked RZM M1/#, only the more often seen early 1st series RZM and # marking which would correlate with the M1 codes. David, of course the mystery marking that you've shown is not found in any of the "usual" references. Any ideas?

Best,
Adam

**yellow12** · 07-01-2011, 10:25 PM

Dear Adam ,

i know this buckle from oakleafmilitaria ,,,,,,,,,but still sold

It's a PuC M1/78 genuin marker

**David North** · 07-02-2011, 11:45 AM

Dear Markus
Many thanks for the additional images of your SA buckles. As so rightly now confirmed, all appear to have exactly the same style of roundel and of course, box with fittings. I suppose that it is reasonable to suppose that all the buckles emanated from the same factory and now of course, we have a tangible link to Schröder. It is not a 100% correlation, although it certainly helps us all a little.

Dear Adam
Your tact is admirable by "...does your example bear hard to see markings?...". The buckle in question is heavily oxidised to the reverse and yet peeping through the distressed and tired aluminium is what a persuasive imagination could lead one to believe is an applied mark. Unbelievably it does look a little like the number 78 and yet the positioning of these mirage digits make no sense whatsoever. Perhaps a cruel coincidence?

Regards,

David